High Flow ports = More air consumption?

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

airbug1009

Registered
Messages
26
Reaction score
0
Location
Thailand
# of dives
100 - 199
Hi All,

I recently bought Scubapro MK25/S600 + R395 Octo. The LP Ports of the MK25 first stage are all High Flow ports and obviously delivers more air~ I only used it for 4 dives. I've totalled more than 20 dives now. I used to use rental regulators and I am fine with it as it doesn't bother my breathing.

The main question is this: Since the LP ports are "high flow", does this means the diver will consume more air during the dive?

When I dive with the MK25/S600, I limit the VIVA(air flow rate) on the S600 because i'm afraid i'll use air too quickly... during the safety stop, i switched to using the R395 and felt enormus amount of air from it.

Thanks!
Alan
 
the High Flow will not cause you to use more air
the high flow ports have less flow restrictions in it so it can supply air faster to your 2ed stage or what ever you deside to plug in to it.
 
and i would not say that the Mk25 has all high flow or no low flow port its more like all the low pressure port have the same flow rate.
why did scubapro calls them all high flow ports is probly a marketing thing
 
The regulator is only delivering what is demanded of it (demand regulator). If at any point it delivers more air than is demanded, then it is free flowing (or creeping or somewhere in between).

This is however, only one man's opinion :wink:


Hi All,

I recently bought Scubapro MK25/S600 + R395 Octo. The LP Ports of the MK25 first stage are all High Flow ports and obviously delivers more air~ I only used it for 4 dives. I've totalled more than 20 dives now. I used to use rental regulators and I am fine with it as it doesn't bother my breathing.

The main question is this: Since the LP ports are "high flow", does this means the diver will consume more air during the dive?

When I dive with the MK25/S600, I limit the VIVA(air flow rate) on the S600 because i'm afraid i'll use air too quickly... during the safety stop, i switched to using the R395 and felt enormus amount of air from it.

Thanks!
Alan
 
They call the end port a high flow as there is no bend for the air to follow. It will just come straight out. They can not make you use more air, it is just handy when you are at 50m and a giant octosquid pops up infront of you from behind a wreck and you start to suck like a vacume cleaner.
In reality, it probably will not feel any different to you or me but on the test machines there will show a difference.
 
If a regulator is offering sufficient resistance to cause you to breathe less air in a given period of time, it is adjusted improperly. It is important that you be able to breathe as much as you want, because you have to be able to increase your volume per minute if you have to work harder -- for example, swimming into a current. Raising the work of breathing, which is what you do when you dial a regulator to higher resistance, increases the likelihood that you will unable to clear carbon dioxide properly. CO2 is narcotic AND causes anxiety. CO2 retention is a bad thing for a diver.

If you want to reduce your air consumption, improve your efficiency so you don't work as hard in the water. Don't try to make it hard to breathe.
 
For the most part the high flow ports are a sales gimmick. Sure if you take the hose off and open the tank valve more air will flow from that port that a "non-high flow” one. The trouble with this is your second stage is the limiting factor on how much gas a reg will flow during max opening of the second stage. Add to that pretty much any low end first stage will flow more gas than a single HP second can flow. Somewhat like hooking a 6 inch fire hose to a garden spray nozzle, regardless of how much the hose can flow, the nozzle can only handle so much. Then like the rest have said, the second is a demand valve so under normal operation it will only flow as much as YOU demand it to. Proper weighting, fining technique and comfort are how you improve you air consumption, your reg has little to do with it..
 
Re-read the two posts above as they are spot on.

I often hear about divers who try to artifically lower their air consumption and in the extreme this leads to skip breathing where the diver uses an inordiantly long pause either between inhalation and exhalation and/or between exhalation and inhalation.

I idea is seductive as most divers quickly learn that the O2 content of exhaled air is still about 16% O2, and its even higher for nitrox as in either case, you use only about 5 percentage points of O2 from a single inhalation of any mix. Way back in the day when nitrox was still voodoo gas many divers felt and or claimed to be able to greatly reduce their gas consumption on nitrox. Those you did however, also had greater issues with narcosis, and per some early US Navy studies (1950s) into oxygen enriched air mixtures they were also at elevated risk of ox tox as elevated CO2 exacerbate both.

What people tend to forget or be ignorant of is that your brain triggers your breathing repsonse not due to low levels of O2 but rather to high levels of CO2, and your ventilation rate is what keeps the CO2 levels low in your bloodstream. So by suprerssing your ventilation rate to improve your gas consumption you are increasing CO2 levels and the narcotic properties of CO2 at depth exacebate the effects of nitrogen narcosis.

Personally I get a bit annoyed with technical divers who put excessive stock in low gas consumption rates and consciously or unconsciously reduce ventilation rates (and increase CO2 retention) in the quest for a better SAC rate and/or to not be THAT guy who is the first to turn a dive on gas. They should know better.

------

Similarly, Herman is correct that a high flow port means little as it is not the limiting factor in a regulator. For example, in terms of first stage performance a Scubapro Mk 2 will flow about 90 SCFm, a MK 17 flows about 177 SCFM, and a Mk 25 flowa about 300 SCFM - but the highest flowing second stage available only flows about 65-70 SCFM. In that regard second stage flow is the limiting factor with a range fo performance from about 30 SCFM to 70 SCFM.

That said, at depth, a lower performing reg can start to lag due to excessive drop in intermediate pressure and it can in some circumstances become possible to over breathe a regulator where it begins to feel like it is not delivering enough gas to meet your instantaneous inhalation needs. But generally speaking with a high performance second stage and a first stage that flows at least 150 SCFM, it just isn't going to be an issue even in deep techncial diving.

If high flow ports do anything at all they create a bit more of a venturi effect in a diaphragm second stage and help the response time of the first stage a bit, but any difference noticeable at the second stage is minimal if the second stage has adequate performance.

On the Mk 25, the end port in the swivel cap gets air directly out the end of the piston,and it does flow about 10% more gas than the other ports. But again 300 SCFM is of no more use than 270 SCFM when the second stage can only flow 70 SCFM. Those first stage flow rates are determined with a 3300 psi supply pressure through a valve with gobs of flow rate and are measured by just removing the port plug - eliminating the otherwise limiting factors of the hose and the second stage, so the numbers have little real world relevance.
 
Tongue in cheek response: the only place it might be noticed is in an OOA incident at a significant depth that results in two "distressed" divers pulling hard on a 1st stage with a pair of seconds in use, and some BC inflation needs.... Even then, I doubt it as there are other distractions going on....

I'm curious if cracking effort may change (doubt it), thus making the "work load" easier...

In the end, its science with little practical real world results. Hence, as said before, another marketing gimmick to get you to buy something new because its "better" than your "old stuff"...
 
Thank you all for clarifying my doubts! Especially to DA Aquamaster for the in depth explaintion!

I'm getting my monthly dive tomorrow and will try it out!
 

Back
Top Bottom