Heretical thoughts on the diver's medical form

[boulderjohn]

Good luck in Australia. They’re a lot tougher than the US especially on a LOB.

In Queensland when going to GBR. They have other states with other rules.

My wife and I and another couple went to Australia a few years ago, planning to dive off of two different boats, including a LOB, on the GBR. Reading ahead, we saw all those dire warnings about how strict things were with medical form requirements in that part of Australia, and we all got updated medical forms signed by our doctors and brought a copy for each boat.

The first boat was one of those huge day boats heading out to the reef. We all had to meet in groups with the DM for our group to handle all paperwork. We produced our medical forms, and the DM looked at them as if she had never seen one in her life. " Why did you bring this?" she asked. All we had to do was sign a single sentence saying we thought we were medically safe to dive.

Roughly the same thing happened on the LOB. We had to sign a single sentence saying we were fit to dive. No need whatsoever for a signed medical form.

 

[rick00001967]

lets be honest. the medical form is not there to protect the diver. it is to protect the shop and the agency. as long as they have a signed form that some dr says you are cleared to dive, then that is one less thing they have to worry about getting sued for.
if you as a diver are taking training and you decide to lie on the medical form, and you are injured or die from one of those undisclosed medical reasons, then thats on you.

 

[Jcp2]

My wife and I and another couple went to Australia a few years ago, planning to dive off of two different boats, including a LOB, on the GBR. Reading ahead, we saw all those dire warnings about how strict things were with medical form requirements in that part of Australia, and we all got updated medical forms signed by our doctors and brought a copy for each boat.

The first boat was one of those huge day boats heading out to the reef. We all had to meet in groups with the DM for our group to handle all paperwork. We produced our medical forms, and the DM looked at them as if she had never seen one in her life. " Why did you bring this?" she asked. All we had to do was sign a single sentence saying we thought we were medically safe to dive.

Roughly the same thing happened on the LOB. We had to sign a single sentence saying we were fit to dive. No need whatsoever for a signed medical form.

I think it’s different for people taking a training class where the dive operation has a greater duty to your safety and the insurance is underwritten by an umbrella association versus a trip where they provide transport and materials but you are more responsible for yourself. The real reason we have national or regional sports associations for youth and amateur sports is just as much about liability coverage for the facility operators as it is to provide infrastructure for league competition.

 

[agilis]

I was 78 the last time I had to certify medical fitness for a dive operation. I had to convince the operator that I was fit to dive based on nothing other than age. I offered to arm wrestle. I wonder how things will go in a few months when I'm 80. I had open heart surgery last year, a double bypass, and feel a lot stronger now than I did before the surgery. I did not have a heart attack, so no cardiac damage at all. You can bet your life that I will not mention this on any forms. I'll explain the scar as a scratch from my GF's toenail. They may not let me dive just based on age, though.

 

[dmaziuk]

My wife and I and another couple went to Australia a few years ago, planning to dive off of two different boats, including a LOB, on the GBR. Reading ahead, we saw all those dire warnings about how strict things were with medical form requirements in that part of Australia, and we all got updated medical forms signed by our doctors and brought a copy for each boat.

The first boat was one of those huge day boats heading out to the reef. We all had to meet in groups with the DM for our group to handle all paperwork. We produced our medical forms, and the DM looked at them as if she had never seen one in her life. " Why did you bring this?" she asked. All we had to do was sign a single sentence saying we thought we were medically safe to dive.

Roughly the same thing happened on the LOB. We had to sign a single sentence saying we were fit to dive. No need whatsoever for a signed medical form.

I'm not sure when they signed it into law, but there's now an "Australian standard" questionnaire that doesn't say "for receiving diving instruction" so it's legally OK to require it for non-certification dives, unlike the RSTC one. While it's possible to answer no to all the questions, the chances of doing so without lying are about 0.00001% so if you fill it in, you'll need the medical.

The medical sheet includes stuff normally not done here, e.g. urine sample and results of pulmonary test function. The good news is, in places where GBR LOBs sail from you can apparently have it done for about $50 on walk-in basis.

 

[TMHeimer]

I was 78 the last time I had to certify medical fitness for a dive operation. I had to convince the operator that I was fit to dive based on nothing other than age. I offered to arm wrestle. I wonder how thing will go in a few months when I'm 80. I had open heart surgery last year, a double bypass, and feel a lot stronger now than I did before the surgery. I did not have a heart attack, so no cardiac damage at all. You can bet your life that I will not mention this on any forms. I'll explain the scar as a scratch from my GF's toenail. They may not let me dive just based on age, though.

Good luck with that. I'm 67 now and haven't been on a charter since 2015. You read about all this stuff occasionally on scubaboard about the medical, liabilities, etc. Then I walk into the (at times) frigid water here after negotiating my way over rocks and think-- geez, nobody cares about an old fart doing this here, I just have to be responsible for myself, not fall, etc.
I think about stuff like that at times--like when I am down in the States and read a beach sign telling you all the dangers and things you can't do because it's illegal. Then I think about what someone standing there in 1720 would think of that. There was a time decades ago in my youth when I forged a $50 beach pass to get onto the beach at Seaside Heights, NJ. Well, actually 4, the other ones for my mom, brother & his wife.
Today's medical form is just more of that sort of thing. Ask your Dr. if you're OK to dive then go.

 

[BRT]

lets be honest. the medical form is not there to protect the diver. it is to protect the shop and the agency. as long as they have a signed form that some dr says you are cleared to dive, then that is one less thing they have to worry about getting sued for.
if you as a diver are taking training and you decide to lie on the medical form, and you are injured or die from one of those undisclosed medical reasons, then thats on you.

And I'm good with that.

 

[boulderjohn]

I'm not sure when they signed it into law, but there's now an "Australian standard" questionnaire that doesn't say "for receiving diving instruction" so it's legally OK to require it for non-certification dives, unlike the RSTC one. While it's possible to answer no to all the questions, the chances of doing so without lying are about 0.00001% so if you fill it in, you'll need the medical.

The medical sheet includes stuff normally not done here, e.g. urine sample and results of pulmonary test function. The good news is, in places where GBR LOBs sail from you can apparently have it done for about $50 on walk-in basis.

I was there about 5 years ago, and the ScubaBoard threads on Australie were all saying about the same thing as you wrote here. We took it all very seriously and did as we were told.

 

[lowviz]

...//... So it's not disingenuous. It's a combination of practical realities and the old adage 'Where you stand on an issue depends on where you sit.' ...//...

You know what you can and should be doing, in your profession. The average legislator does not. ...//...

In some things, self-regulation goes a long way.

I agree with you but I also think that I see @raftingtigger 's point. It would be nice for a first responder to have a bit more insight into the patient. With that in mind, there is more to this than lawyers...

I sign all sorts of releases in the same manner that I sign for software packages. Nobody (who wouldn't benefit from professional intervention) ever reads that endless boilerplate. Yeah, the dive-op can be sued. But, ala Lorena Bobbitt, you get off if the evidence doesn't stand up in court.

Tigger makes a very good point from her medical viewpoint (if I got it correctly). How about some hint as to a likely 'disability' when presented with a totally unknown patient?

 

[raftingtigger]

With PCPs (aka your doctor), or more likely their employer, getting more and more unwilling to sign physicals it is going to get harder and harder to have a doctor (medical provider) sign these. Pretty soon the industry will price themselves out of the market - because no one will be able to find or afford getting the medical signed. At least in the USA, insurance doesn't want to cover the exam.

As a provider, I will ONLY sign these if there really is no health reason to need one. Otherwise, I don't know the medical history well enough, nor get enough remuneration for the liability I am undertaking.