Her Air Stopped on 140 Foot Dive

[Northeastwrecks]

Actually, she and her buddy were on 100 cf tanks. Most of the group was on 80s, but I talked these two into doing the trip, and I arranged 100s for the 3 of us.

Yeah.... right.... that makes it SO much better.

Instead of larger tank, perhaps a more appropriate equipment rental would have been a tag with her loved ones' phone number and the make, model and tag number of her car.

Alternatively, a basic OW course is always a nice gift.

Woefully unprepared and underequipped is the kindest thing I can say about this incident. The idea of bolting to the surface when there is a gaggle of divers with gas is a failure of planning and training on a monumental level. I'm also curious why and how the buddy let it get to that point.

 

[Scubamedicjoe]

ok this is my thought if you turn your tank all the way on and not back it back some there then there is no doubt weather its on and you should be able to reach your valve your self to turn it .

 

[Snowbear]

ok this is my thought if you turn your tank all the way on and not back it back some there then there is no doubt weather its on and you should be able to reach your valve your self to turn it .

:11: WOW :11:
Now there's a concept worth considering

Unfortunately, most recreational divers I've observed cannot reach their valve for various reasons - exposure suit too restrictive, tank position, lack of shoulder mobility, whatever. Some just assume they can't and don't see a need to even try.

So - what would you propose these folks do to prevent what occurred in Don's story?

 

[d33ps1x]

So - what would you propose these folks do to prevent what occurred in Don's story?

I think it was all already mentioned above. Not ignore your open water training and check your own equipment before and even while you are in the water.

Pratice the skills so you don't do a lame bolt for the surface and fix the problem underwater where it is supposed to be fixed. Any diver in a poodle jacket and single tank diving wet should be able to grab their own valve by one of the two methods tought in every open water class unless they have some physical condition not allowing them to, in which case they should either pick their buddies wisely or forego diving as a sport.

Not diving to 140 on air, especially when she has such obviously bad underwater instints, might be a nice touch too.

 

[Scubamedicjoe]

hum solution learn more, continue training and check your own equipment and do these exercises.
http://www.divefitness.com/html/articles/article_pdfs/should_stretch.pdf

 

[Northeastwrecks]

:11: WOW :11:
Now there'sSo - what would you propose these folks do to prevent what occurred in Don's story?

The first step is proper training. My buddies and I have been trained, and train our students, that problems that occur under water get fixed under water.

I've also made sure that I can reach my valves, whether in doubles or singles. My buddies can all do the same and, once again, we train our students to do the same. If they can't reach their valves, they are told to work on it until they can. That's one reason why we don't train people to wear their tanks dangling off their butts.

Some actual buddy skills and situational awareness might be worth considering. Buddies need to know what is going with each other and be prepared to assist. They must stay close enough to each other that they can react to a problem and be prepared to take charge of a situation to prevent an incident from becoming accident. They do not allow a buddy to blow and go.

The second step is proper planning. During our head to toe pre-dive check and brief, which is conducted before every dive, we go over every piece of equipment from head to toe. Part of that check includes a flow check, whcih means that we reach back and manipulate the valves to make sure that (1) we can reach them; and (2) they are on. The flow check is followed by breathing off the primary and backup regs while watching the SPG. There are no exceptions to this rule.

The third step is a global rule. The crews on the boats that I use regularly are smart enough to not touch equipment unless asked, i.e., handing me a stage bottle and helping me clip it off. They do NOT manipulate valves or babysit divers by messing with their gear in the interest of "helping".

If I'm on a new boat, I make it very clear that I don't want them to touch my equipment under any circumstances or for any reason. I'm polite, but very clear and emphatic.

It goes without saying the my buddies and I don't touch each other's equipment.

None of this is rocket science. Accordingly, compare what would have happened if the divers in question had performed ANY of these simple checks.

I'd also echo the statements about the type of dive that was being performed. There is simply no way that you can convince me that executing a 140 foot dive on air or nitrox in a single tank is appropriate, particularly when done by a diver who reacts to emergencies in the manner described above. That's beyond asinine.

In the end, it comes down to taking personal responsibility for your own safety and equipment, rather then being an underwater tourist who depends on third parties to ensure your safety and who can't handle a reasonably simple and entirely preventable accident.

 

[Wreck]

Always need to look at the SPG as you take a few breaths, as you know.

Out of curiousity, I played around with a couple regulators to roughly simulate the situation (above water). I'm guessing that the pressure down spike shouldn't last more than a second, or else you should definitely notice the difficulty to inhale on that first breath and realize something's not right. This should be noticebable before you hit 80 feet though. If not, the pressure needle is not going to move very much at the surface.

To complicate matters, some of us do not use SPG's... *gasp!* (but use air-integrated or wireless computers) the guage check idea does not seem to work well unless the air pressure sampling rate is less than a couple seconds. My wireless Vytec transmits every second, but took 4-5 transmissions to tell me that the pressure had dropped 1500 psi after shutting off the valve and taking a huge breath. The security backup is that I get 3 beeps from it when the pressure dips below 500 psi.

Right before the dive, I go along the tank rack & turn on all the tanks (I know some divers get upset if anyone touches their gear, but that's not usually the case here) just so I KNOW they're on.

That's nice, but that's preventing divers from doing the check themselves and making a routine habit out of it. Maybe it seems it bit like Mother Hen, but you could make it a DM's briefing point to ask everyone to open their their valves ALL THE WAY, right then and there to make SURE they are all fully open. Let them do it themselves, so they make it routine. Doing things by hand seems to reinforce memory better than reading/hearing about it.

Now for me on the other hand, I don't need people fiddling with my valves. I rig my equipment up as soon as I'm on the boat, check PSI and then turn the air off and completely purge the regulator. Why? My wireless pressure transmitter falls asleep with inactivity and my computer shuts off and throws away the trasmit code by the time we've gotten to the dive site. So, just before I strap up to go in, I turn the valve FULL on (minus a half turn), wake up the transmitter, and resynch my computer, check the pressure, and then strap up.

We get a fair number of divers who don't know which if "off" and which is "on", so their method is "turn it the way it ain't."

By leaving the regulator unpressurized (purged) until you're ready to strap up, you'll know when you're pressurizing it by looking at the guage while turnign the valve, but not vice versa. It's a visual/memory confirmation to see the needle go up for these people who can't remember which way is off. If they forget to turn it on, then that first breath will tell them before they stride off the boat, not after the second or fourth breath as they stride into the water. I'm suggesting this for new folks, but probably wouldn't be bad habit for the rest of us(?) A tech-oriented instructor of mine has done this more than once, so it happens to more than just newbs.

 

[Wreck]

Says something for not being lazy and learning to assemble and check your own gear and be able to manipulate your own valves at depth.

All of these are a requirement from ANY training agency.

I don't remember anything about being able to check your own valves at depth in the SSI OW book. I loaned mine to a friend or else I'd check it right now to see if I've only just forgotten about it. We never practiced valve operation underwater in our OW or advanced classes. It would be good if they had.

 

[Wreck]

ok this is my thought if you turn your tank all the way on and not back it back some there then there is no doubt weather its on and you should be able to reach your valve your self to turn it .

This is fine, as long as it wasn't already on and you are now turning it off out of ignorance or inattention. You wouldn't be able to tell if it was now off.

I agree with the ability to operate your own valves - but this isn't taught by all instructors of OW students.

 

[Ann Marie]

I have never understood turning the first stage knob back 1/2 a turn from the completely on position. If I remember correctly, it was so that the knob doesn't get frozen in place.

Go ahead and blast away :bomb: , but I always leave the knob in the completely open position and not the 1/2 turn back. I figure that I would rather have it frozen in the open position when I am finished with the dive and above water than only be part-way open when I am down below.

In the case with this diver, she would have know that her first stage wasn't open long before getting to 80 feet instead of bolting to the surface because of restricted airflow.

Glad to hear that she's okay.