Help toeing the line?

[diverdowndh]

I'm working my DM cert as probably everyone can see. I have both n upcoming dive trip and possibly an upcoming trip with my instructor beforehand with an OW group. Please understand, my Instructor has the highest of ethic so the post is NOT about him or his ethics. I just would like some input from others about my "help" on both the OW trip and the upcoming vacation I have planned. To what degree should I help and when do I toe the line? I have no problem working with the equipment, etc and hanging back to watch him perform his magic. Being a normally helpful person anyway (have "rescued several people on occasion during my diving life) I need to know when to simply stop and let be. I do have DAN insurance but, of course, do not have DM insurance because I am not a certified DM yet.
Any thoughts? Has anyone run into a situation that your basic reflex kicked in but due to liability you needed to hang back? I plan to have a really good discussion w/my Instructor before both about my roles and looking for some experience from others here...
Thanks!

 

[Divingguy]

I am not familiar with how the PADI program works, but in NAUI, I am a Training Assistant and also a Dive Master Candidate. NAUI has VERY specific duties which a TA is permitted to perform, and IF a TA stays within those restrictions, the TA will be covered on the Instructor's policy. I think you just need to have a very polite but frank discussion about exactly what you will be expected to do, and how the insurance thing is going to work.
Tom

 

[Walter]

Are you expecting trouble?

 

[diverdowndh]

No, not expecting any trouble... just here I am, a qualified rescue diver. In reality, I am just accompanying my instructor down to so he can do the final OW stuff. Just curious where to draw the line and wondered if anyone else had the questions I have.
Yes, I plan to get some things ironed out before the trip happens, what to do/not to do. I learn so much from SB from asking these types of questions, so thought I would voice them.
Thanks!

 

[Divingguy]

OK, well back to the standards thing. NAUI allows me to do certain things as a TA, and then allows me to do other things as a DMC working on DM, UNDER THE DIRECT CONTROL OF THE INSTRUCTOR, AND AS PART OF MY TRAINING AS A DMC, to get the coveted "sign-offs". The key to you being covered by your instructor's insurance is that your instructor has to make SURE that both you and he/she comply with whatever standards PADI has concerning what you are allowed to do. If you violate standards, no coverage. You both need to make sure of what you are being asked to do, and whether it is within standards.

 

[Al Mialkovsky]

Personally I don't allow anyone to assist me in any way unless they are an insursed professional (and a good one at that) or they are under my supervision during training.

Just my thing

I like it a lot when non pros give me a wide berth during my checkout dives or training dives.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Why are you asking us what to do? the person you need to ask is your instructor. I work with three different ones from three different agencies with three different teaching styles. What I respond to and when is based on their requirements and class makeup. If the stuff hits the fan then I act according to training and instinct. But for routine stuff it's up to the person conducting the class to determine what, where, when, and how things are done.

 

[tedj01]

... do not have DM insurance because I am not a certified DM yet....

You can still get DM in training insurance coverage; you do not have to be certified to get it.

Otherwise your instructor is the one you need to ask your questions.

 

[knotical]

As a DMC, while on recreational dives you are another certified diver. Whether you help someone or not is a personal decision.

If training occurs during those dive trips, the following might help.
As a DMC, you are a student, so professional liability insurance is typically not required. As a student, you are not authorized to teach students.
Paraphrased from the PADI Instructor Manual:
As a Divemaster Candidate you are authorized under direct supervision to:
- guide people who have completed all Scuba Diver requirements.
- accompany Open Water or Scuba Diver students on tours for all but the first dive.
And lots of things are required for your training, including:
During internships you will be asked to demonstrate skills for student divers in confined water.
You’ll supervise certified divers in open water, not in training.
You’ll participate in a continuing education open water training session.
You’ll conduct a “Divemaster Conducted Program”.
etc.

Note that in the above, you are either under the direct supervision of your instructor and/or are diving with already certified divers. Beyond that, it’s between you and your instructor. Typically, you are another set of eyes and ears. Your instructor should welcome the fact that you can help prevent problems.

 

[diverdowndh]

Why are you asking us what to do? the person you need to ask is your instructor.

I know that the instructor is the real place for answers, I even stated that in my post. I am just curious as to other experiences. I'm sure my instructor will give me the same deal, stay outta my way and I'll call you if I need you. I know that I am not supposed to teach/instruct. Here is an example of where I'm coming from - I was in the pool with my instructor and a group of 6 OW students. I was there just to watch. While the instructor was working closely with a student, one of the women was doing exactly what she was NOT supposed to be doing, playing around. She somehow spit her reg out and started choking. Now, in 10 feet of water... yeah, I know but she shot to the surface. I looked at my Inst. and he didn't see her right away. I could see her choking on the surface and I went up to make sure she would be OK. I barely made the surface and asked her if she was OK and my Inst. popped up. He explained to me off to the side that going up was OK to check on someone who bolted but I was not allowed to descend with them in any way.
It is those little things that I'm looking for, and in an OW environment I'm just wide-eyed and expecting anything. We have a 5 hour trip down to Blue Hole, NM so he and I will have plenty of time to discuss these scenarios...