help! - reg not working right

[Nemrod]

All single hose regulators do exactly what you say, easier to breath the further they are below the lung center, harder as they are raised above the lungs center, it is physics and no manufacturer/brand can alter physics.. However, it sounds like you have an issue which has now made this characteristic more noticeable. Since I am not familiar with Zeagle regulators I am not going to hazard a guess beyond it could be that the LP seat needs to be replaced and please when installing a new seat do not spin the volcano orifice without retracting the seat.

N

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

divemaster tom, i have an inline tool and it was all correct when i serviced it and i will adjust again when i have a tank handy, but why would it be out of whack? and my main question is: if it was easy to breath in all positions before and then gets out of whack wouldn't it be hard to breath in all positions now?...why is it very increasingly difficult to breath the more i tilt my head up? i know most regs are a little more difficult to breath looking up but not this one(originally).

I own and service a couple Zeagle ZX 2nd stages.

What you are describing does not sound like the normal "physics" of single hose 2nd stage performance. What Nemrod describes is spot on (as usual!), but it sounds to me like your problem goes well beyond that.

You will need to get a tank and re-test the regulator under pressure (and double check the 1st stage IP first, always do that), but until you can get a tank I would would go ahead take apart the 2nd stage completely, carefully looking for any assembly errors, check for proper movement of the demand lever, lever height, etc.

Something is definitely wrong, and is not likely related to 1st stage IP.

My initial thought is a lever height issue, poppet not engaged correctly in the lever's "feet" (an assembly error), or diaphragm somehow crimped (again, an assembly error)... but I'm really not sure on this one.

I'd have it apart in a heartbeat if it were mine, it should not behave that way, and I would not dive it again until I resolved the problem.

Let us know if you get it figured out.

Best wishes.

 

[needmynitrogenfix]

thanks leadturn and nimrod,
i think the 'lever foot and poppet' might be the place to look. i've already taken apart and adjusted but wont know til i get a tank. going to bring a few tools with me when i do as well as my in-line adjustment tool. it's not the 1st stage, the i.p., the diaphram bent, and all looks ok inside and the +/- lever works fine. hopefully that will do it.
if it is the lever arm/poppet that is out of adjustment would that make it increasingly harder to breath as i look more and more upward rather than just making it a little harder to breath in all positions equally?

 

[Nemrod]

thanks leadturn and nimrod,
if it is the lever arm/poppet that is out of adjustment would that make it increasingly harder to breath as i look more and more upward rather than just making it a little harder to breath in all positions equally?

Yes, a poorly tuned regulator will magnify this characteristic. I hazard a guess that it is not really breathing/operating correctly in any position. Lever height or a deeply grooved seat could be the problem but sometimes it is just a combination of little things or assembly error. We are going off your statement that IP is correct and that the first stage is not the problem. I am not clear on if this regulator is a balanced type second stage or an unbalanced type?

Airflow is being restricted or limited, probably due to lever height not opening the seat/volcano orifice fully or proportionally per your demand. A deeply grooved seat can have a similar effect even if lever height appears normal. The lever moves opening the volcano orifice but in reality, the volcano knife edge is still inside the groove, thus a flow restriction despite (apparent) normal lever action and cracking effort. I am just making a guess that something is resulting in insufficient opening/gap at the seat/orifice and thus restricting flow volume.

IP and cracking effort aside, a restriction in the sustained flow rate can manifest the symptoms you describe.

I would not dive it either until you settle this problem and correct it.

N

 

[Instructor_Tom]

divemaster tom, i have an inline tool and it was all correct when i serviced it and i will adjust again when i have a tank handy, but why would it be out of whack? and my main question is: if it was easy to breath in all positions before and then gets out of whack wouldn't it be hard to breath in all positions now?...why is it very increasingly difficult to breath the more i tilt my head up? i know most regs are a little more difficult to breath looking up but not this one(originally).

The envoy is a great balanced reg and should not be harder to breath up/down/upside down. It really sounds like something is out of whack on it and i would take it in to LDS to get it looked at.

I recently had to take my primary in because it was acting weird and i noticed that some how the body had developed a crack, explains why i was getting some water during my last dive.


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[halocline]

The envoy is a great balanced reg and should not be harder to breath up/down/upside down. It really sounds like something is out of whack on it and i would take it in to LDS to get it looked at.

Whether a second stage is balanced or not has nothing to do with how it reacts to changes in orientation. All 2nd stages require more inhalation effort when looking up due to their relative depth vs the diver's mouth. (not actually 'lungs' IMO, but the same concept) It's just more obvious when the reg's performance is hampered in some way, as is likely the case here.

The explanation for this is a little complicated, but one somewhat related example that's very easy to picture is how a 2nd stage flows easily underwater when the mouthpiece is up, and stops when it's down. If you ever play around with a double hose, you can get a clear demonstration simply by raising and lowering the mouthpiece underwater. When it's shallower than the trigger point for the 2nd stage valve (the lever/diaphragm point of contact), the reg flows, when it's deeper, it stops. The same effect happens in single hose regs, only the mouthpiece and 2nd stage valve are much closer together and the depth differences are much smaller by comparison. There are also factors related to the relative depth of the diaphragm and exhaust valve depth, which changes with the orientation of the reg.

Balanced 2nd stages react less to changes in IP than do unbalanced 2nds, because part of the IP is diverted and used to assist in keeping the valve closed. So when IP drops, so does the force holding the valve closed (cracking pressure). That's the only difference.

 

[Nemrod]

All regulators behave as in the diagrams above regardless of balanced, not balanced, carbon fiber, turbocharged or whatever hype is placed upon it. People confuse cracking effort/work and flow effort/work. There are no exceptions, it is physics and God does not make an exception for any particular brand.

N