Help choosing first canister light

[feitr]

Hey,

Going to do a cavern course shortly and intend to progress and do full cave eventually (i live in australia and the full process here takes quite a while since you need a fair amount of cavern/cave dives before progressing to the next level). I'm only just learning about can lights and not really sure the approach i should take. I don't have a budget per se; however, the customs cap in australia is 1000$ (above which i have to add 10% to the cost) so I'd prefer to get under that price point. Unfortunately it seems all the 21 watt lights are just over that.

I've gone back and forth over this several times - right now i'm thinking maybe something super intro like the light monkey 9w LED Light Monkey 9w LED Primary - Dive Right In Scuba - Plainfield, IL or the hollis led 15 Hollis LED 15 - Dive Right In Scuba - Plainfield, IL

Anybody know anything about these lights? My thinking is that if i was to buy an intro level light it will probably do me fine until i progress (assuming i do) into full cave penetration in which case I will 1. be more informed about the issue (will have dived with people using different lights) and 2. have more idea of what i need for what i plan to do (i could buy a LM 50 watt now and potentially never go into full cave which would be ridiculous obviously).

Thoughts?

Thanks

 

[tstormdiver]

Personally, I think the HID's are better. While LED's have come a long way,... they are not yet to the power & focusability of the HID. I have both a Light Monkey 21 watt HID & a GreenForce 7 bulb LED. I will choose the HID any day over the LED.

 

[Superlyte27]

Under 1k the best light on the market is the Light Monkey 12w LED. It's brighter than the Dive Rite, has a tighter focus than the DR, burns longer than the DR, is smaller than the DR and has better customer service support than Dive Right. Let me know if you need help locating one. I think I can get one to Australia.

 

[feitr]

How wide can you make an HID beam? Is it possible to use one as a video light?

I guess one of the problems I'm having with the idea of ordering say a 21 watt HID is that it is only a few hundred (ok 6) more to just get a 50 watt light...like where do you stop?

EDIT: But by the same token if i by a 9w led i am essentially guaranteeing that i have to buy another light down the road....decisions decisions

Reality is, since i am only starting off with the cavern course I don't actually *need* a canister light...best option is probably just to stick with my 250 lumen backup lights as primaries and get some exposure to different lights and decide from there. Still interested in opinions though as i'm going to have to make this decision sometime or another. More i think about it though the more it makes sense to just splash out and buy something that will last me a good while.

 

[lucca brassi]

1st : http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/lights/341231-mb-sub-vb-cave-test-mark-chase-part-1-a.html

2nd: 7XRE 5h TEC

3'd: TEK ONE E/O Head

Have similar (DIY modified on +37 W) 1. and 3. (total DIY) and they rocks .

As video light you could put 1'st on wide (thats why I put it on first place ) and it have so even narrow beam without hotspots that is simply awesome.

HID... ehh for those who want sticks with constant troubles or want sell high their own .

If you low on money you can contact DIY guys that made and sell lights in your region (Packhorse)

 

[Superlyte27]

It's funny that HID still gets a bad rep. I've NEVER lost a bulb or a ballast. I have 3 HID lights the oldest of which is 5 years old. And i'm not gentle with my gear. In the beginning when the tech was new, there were problems. Those problems are mostly a thing of the past.

I have a LM 35w HID, Halcyon 21w HID, and DR 24w HID.... I also have a LM12W LED. The argument that HID is fragile and problematic has been gone for at least two years, and probably more.

However, they are still more expensive.


But I agree with the sentiment that one light isn't great for everything. It's impossible for me to teach using my 35w. Even if the divers are in front of me, it's hard to see them signal if they are using a less than great light.

I prefer Light Monkey for a few reasons. Recently when MPEN's Halcyon light failed, LM was about $100 cheaper in replacing the battery. It was late Saturday evening when someone met us over at a closed store front to help us get up and running for a weekend of cave diving.

Months earlier, when T.bix's Halcyon canister light caught fire due to a faulty wiring repair, it was Corey (the owner of Light Monkey) who came into the shop on Sunday afternoon to get us up and running.

Their lights work great. They are bright, they are focused perfectly for signalling in the caves, they have long battery times and a small footprint, and their customer service is un-matched. I carry many products lines for canister lights, but you see which one I pitch.

 

[feitr]

Is there any drawback to having a 50 watt HID other than the fact that you might blind everything in sight/drown out your buddies/teams lights? The mv-sub 50 looks nice in terms of the beam/power variability and I had looked at the lightforme lights also.

At this stage I'm feeling inclined to grab a cheap 500 lumen type handheld led torch and then once i know i am going to do full cave and have some first hand exposure to the lights i'll buy something nice. Now that i think about it buying a 9w primary can light is pretty pointless given that it isn't going to be too much better than a cheapish handheld and im going to have to buy another can light at some point anyways.

And yea from what i've heard the HID bulbs most commonly used nowadays are not very likely to break on you. Have to say i do like the idea of being able to have different power settings with an LED and being able to change beam angle would be nice (use it for videography, night dives, etc.) although the latter looks like new technology for led dive lights (only seen the mv-sub able to do it)

 

[Superlyte27]

50w isn't going to work too well in team diving in a cave. You simply can't see your buddies signal you.

Of course this is scubaboard so now 400 people who have never been cave diving or have made 8 cave dives in the last 100 years will chime in and say they knew someone who knew someone who had an aunt who's son was a gardener for a guy who was a cave diver who used a 50w HID and it worked just fine. And for those chiming in, I'll plainly say, "suck it". A 50w HID sucks for cave diving unless your buddies are using the same thing or close to the same thing.

 

[feitr]

Yea i just talked to the person i'm going to take the course with and she said that anything beyond 21 watt HID is overkill unless you are doing videography or something (for our cave systems at least i guess). Changed my mind again and now really considering the mb-sub 50 if i can get it under a certain price - output should be sufficient and i really like the modularity of the beam with both power settings and beam width. I should be able to use it for video if i wanted and presumably at low settings, wide beam it would be a very good night diving torch (as opposed to fish frying with a 21 watt HID at 8 degrees). I initially overestimated the cost because I wasn't discounting the VAT cost.

 

[lucca brassi]

It's funny that HID still gets a bad rep. I've NEVER lost a bulb or a ballast. I have 3 HID lights the oldest of which is 5 years old. And i'm not gentle with my gear. In the beginning when the tech was new, there were problems. Those problems are mostly a thing of the past.

I have a LM 35w HID, Halcyon 21w HID, and DR 24w HID.... I also have a LM12W LED. The argument that HID is fragile and problematic has been gone for at least two years, and probably more.

However, they are still more expensive.

There are some technical problems with ballast and bulbs

- problems with reliable spare parts ( actually there are only two producers for most 75% diving HID light ( USHIO and Brightstar )

(...then you get messeges like that Halcyon HID 21W ballast and bulb needed and there is a lot of them , just sending one to Polland btw )

- there is no standard bulb with standard socket . Big companies buying raw bulbs like



And they produce their own connectors and holders .I don't really know how is with their Mostly of their cables & connectors is not specificated for voltages over 15.000 (ignition)/65V (but who cares ;-)) , what is possibility of switching between ( H, DiverRite , Agir , LM , Yellow Diving...) ... focus distance could be adjusted but ( devil is in details)

- Brightstar changes several times their balast dimensions ( and if something wrong not fit in head , i know at least three dimensions for 21/24W ( minimal technical changes - basicaly same circuit42x26x77 , 38x28x85 , 42x31x85 (+/-1mm) ) there is also separated ballast/ ignitior (ballast in canister , ignitior in head) . Same thinhg happend with cylindrical ballast and last is designed by ''DARKBUSTER HID'' I bought for my lamp 43mm diameter and then they switch to 52mm .

- all ballasts , circuit is much more complicated and electrical loaded (high tension, moisture, temperature ) higher MTTF special problems are capacitors
inside !

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if I took HID these days I 'll took with automotive parts inside ( far from ideal but safe)