Have people tried to get the "Advanced" in AOW changed to something else?

[fuzzybabybunny]

I know this subject has been beaten to death but I really take issue with the nomenclature of this name. There are so many problems with using the word "Advanced" and almost no upsides except it being a good way to attract more people to buy courses. I cringe every single time I hear someone say they are an Advanced Diver and when I ask them how many dives they have they say 8 and I see their complete lack of skills in the water.

Why not have it be named Open Water II or Beginner Scuba II or Adventure Scuba or Fun Scuba? Hell, even the word "Intermediate" is too much.

From PADI's site - this reads like a disaster to me and the following characteristics have no business being called "Advanced":

http://www.padi.com/blog/2011/03/09/scuba-guru-mythbusting-the-advanced-open-water-course/

In the above link PADI is practically saying to people, "Don't worry! Advanced Open Water isn't really "Advanced"! It's just fun adventure dives that you're not even tested on!"

IMO if they got rid of the word Advanced it would do a few really great things:

1. It wouldn't put off beginners who are scared of the "Advanced" nomenclature.

2. It won't give people who have completed the course a completely false sense of competence. (I was already an intermediate freediver when I got my Advanced cert and I knew in no way could any new diver actually be advanced after doing only the course dives and getting the cert, which was what made me take issue with the name. My first thought when my buddy and I officially got called Advanced divers was "you've got to be f*cking kidding me" )

3. It won't give dive ops an excuse to take "advanced" divers on dives that are above their competence level. (I just got done reading in Accidents and Incidents of a couple who were recently AOW and went on a boat night dive in the open ocean that was way above their competence level. And the dive op allowed it because they were Advanced.)

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[DevonDiver]

I'd like to see 'Advanced' changed to "Also"...

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

I'd like to see 'Advanced' changed to "Also"...

Lol, never thought of it that way

Beginner Open Water Part I
Beginner Open Water Part II

Would be more accurate and also entice people to want to complete the whole "Beginner Open Water" two-part course.

Advanced Open Water is jumping the gun by many magnitudes.

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[DevonDiver]

Advanced Open Water is jumping the gun by many magnitudes.

Not really, it's advanced Open Water, not advanced Diver. An 'advancement' on the Open Water program, rather than a designation of 'advanced' diving skills or proficiency.

That said, I still think the certification title was purposely designed to have a particular appeal.... and is frequently promoted incorrectly by some instructors/centers to capitalize on that.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

Not really, it's advanced Open Water, not advanced Diver. An 'advancement' on the Open Water program, rather than a designation of 'advanced' diving skills or proficiency.

That said, I still think the certification title was purposely designed to have a particular appeal.... and is frequently promoted incorrectly by some instructors/centers to capitalize on that.

Too many people simply go on to call themselves Advanced Divers. Even instructors call their "graduates" Advanced. That's the colloquial usage. Yes, it is an "advancement" of the open water program but it is generally not taken as such colloquially. And to use the "it's actually just an "advancement" of the open water program" excuse is a completely disingenuous reason for calling it such, one that doesn't take into account any of the myriad of negatives that result in the real world usage of the word.

Open water in and of itself can be very advanced and dangerous. Even a seasoned "Master Diver" is unlikely to be truly advanced in everything Open Water can throw its way.

A night dive in the middle of the dark open ocean with no bottom, no reference point, possible currents, and one in which you can only use your instruments to monitor your depth and direction is still "just" an open water dive.

A deeper dive within recreational limits that has you narced to hell and back is still just an open water dive

A dive that has you jump off a small cliff into the water, immediately descend as to avoid being pummeled in the surf above, navigate in churned up limited vis surge, and then time your re-entry and wave sets so as to have a wave actually carry you and dump you on top of a rock ledge (versus into the craggy side of it) is still just an open water dive.

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[DevonDiver]

It's all relative. PADI "titles" have to be held respective to their being in a very limited, recreational, diving program. You can be a 'big fish', but only relative to a 'small pond'. What some fail to appreciate is that there are much bigger ponds...

 

[dbulmer]

Too many people simply go on to call themselves Advanced Divers. Even instructors call their "graduates" Advanced. That's the colloquial usage. Yes, it is an "advancement" of the open water program but it is generally not taken as such colloquially.

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Be careful with this assumption. Holds for the US but might cause confusion in other parts of the world.

In the UK PADI Advanced Open water is called Advanced Open Water.

If you said you were an Advanced Diver someone might conclude you were a BSAC diver - definition below

Advanced Diver
The Advanced Diver course further develops knowledge and skills. Divers gain experience in planning dives at different sites and different circumstances. Additional experience will be gained in using small boats, chartwork. navigation and many other related skills. BSAC consider this grade as being a fully trained diver. Advanced Divers are eligible to progress to Advanced Instructor.

 

[diverrex]

Yes this subject has been beaten to death. Yes something like OW 2 would be more accurate. Yes most of us experienced divers know that someone with AOW is often not even a reasonably skilled diver let alone advanced. But doubt it will ever change. While it might be better for you and many of the rest of us, from a marketing point of view PADI knows that many of the infrequent divers love to be able to tell their non diving friends, who don't know any better, that they are an Advanced diver, and that gives those those infrequent divers motivation to take the course.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

It's all relative. PADI "titles" have to be held respective to their being in a very limited, recreational, diving program. You can be a 'big fish', but only relative to a 'small pond'. What some fail to appreciate is that there are much bigger ponds...

Unfortunately more or less every single person who has dove or *will* dive goes through PADI first. That's the problem.

The program and recreational nature is limited, but the customer base certainly is NOT. And really, at the beginner levels that PADI caters almost exclusively to, the customers can't even see the forest for the trees. Most will almost certainly fail to appreciate that there are much bigger ponds, and instead erroneously think they're already in the big pond, and some a big fish in it, no less.

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[DevonDiver]

Unfortunately more or less every single person who has dove or *will* dive goes through PADI first. That's the problem.

I don't see a problem. I don't care if people want to delude themselves over a 'title'. Everyone can see how good they are at a glance. The course provides a clear definition and scope of training, along with recommendations/dive limits following certification.

Those who want to over-exaggerate the nature of AOW level only serve to diminish the reputation of the course... and thus weaken the perception of divers at that level. It's self-defeating.

When it comes to diving ability... the proof is in the diving, not in any plastic card.