Have I got a book for you!

[Divesherpa]

The Last Dive"?

My best friend was on the boat when the Rouse's died. The Rouses died of the stupids, nothing more. I understand that they enjoyed diving, but lots of other people do also. The book is written by someone who got bent being stupid, which is why he portrays them as heroic.
I recently moved to Gainesville and spend 6 days a week pounding Ginnie. I see this book everywhere and hear people talking about it. I don't understand.
Bernie has put together a good magazine. Immersed has some interesting info that you can't find in print many other places.
Would someone please explain the fascination with the Rouses to me.
Steve Berman's map of Ginnie is even dedicated to the Rouses(released after his death, can't figure out why it isn't dedicated to steve).
e-mail me at divesherpa@cavediver.net

 

[tombiowami]

Don't know if you all are still batting it around, but I would be up for an online book club thing. Prob be better to get a separate category here, but it sounds fun to me.

Tommy

 

[tombiowami]

O, and the fascination with the ones who went bent and died? I think it goes along with the general national trend to hold up the victim to hero status and applaud weakness. The traditional full hero who sacrificed his/her life for the sake of others has a second place to ones victimized by _______. Fill in the blank.

Berman is the one who drowned diving solo, right? I think similar to the Andria Doria story the simple matter is failure to follow basic rules.

An interesting post on the Techdiver list was when a newbie asked what the heck Steve was doing solo cave diving and he was castigated by a few for not knowing what he was talking about and being insensitive, when the main issue was, no solo cave diving breaks the ominous rule number 1 and is the first question that should be asked.

Tommy

 

[Natasha]

Divesherpa,
I think the answer to what's the "fascination with the Rouses" comes down to the simple answer of 'marketing'. Yep, they did a good job marketing the book. Just about every dive shop I've been in has it for sale, it was at Dema for sale, and it was at the Chicago dive show for sale. Most divers want to read about diving, when they aren't diving. The book sold.
As for Steve, who is a friend of a friend of mine, his story is very sad and 'stupid' if you want to use that word, also. Steve was a well respected instructor, and had been diving caves for years. He KNEW what he was doing was wrong, and did it anyway. He left many people sad, grieving, and shaking their heads.
Both tragic stories, and deaths that could have been avoided.

 

[Divesherpa]

1st, a question for Tombiowami, How does solo cave diving break rule #1?
Question #2 What Doria story are you talking about?
Steve was a super nice guy and a phenomenal diver, the best I have ever seen, barring maybe Tysall. His death was a tragedy, granted that it was self inflicted.

As for solo diving, I cave dive solo 9 out of 10 dives for two reasons, 1 no one else to watch out for, and most importantly, if you dive more than 7 times a week, you run out of people to dive with and are left with the decision to either (a) not dive, (not an option), or (b) rig another buddy out of extra bottles and bring extra gear, (lights, etc...)

 

[Natasha]

Divesherpa:
Are you a certified solo cave diver? I bet you're not. The reason is because there is no such thing. Get with the plan, or we will be reading about you next.
I don't mean to start a fight on here, but cave diving solo is the same as saying I don't care if I die, I have to dive. This is not just my 2 cents, it's the truth.
People care about you. Don't do that to them. Get a buddy or read a book. Don't cave dive solo, please.

 

[Ontario Diver]

Natasha;

I'm not a cave/cavern diver - did enough of it dry to keep me happy.

I've read and talked to a number of people that talk about the "solo" aspect of extreme cave penetration. The usual comment is something along the lines of:

1) all kit and gear is redundant, tested, etc Gear today doesn't have the failure rate of years ago
2) a second diver may actually increase risk due to task load issues and what if he/she get stuck "behind" you
3) makes dive planning more difficult due to managing another set of physical conditions
4) on extreme penetrations, a buddy rescue may not be feasible anyway and will put both parties at extreme risk

Now myself, I'm not about to try it. But when some of these folk discuss it in terms of risk issues - it becomes very obvious that this is not a "macho" call but a balanced risk management decision made on experience/training/ability.

Then again, I've been known to run with scissors and eat yogurt after the "Best Before" date.

 

[tombiowami]

My take is that a death in a sport like this has 2 parts, one personal and one technical. On the personal level, I don't care what one of my friends was doing or why, I would be sorry they are gone, grief, emotion, loss. Say if my wife was in a wreck and got killed while going 150mph with no helmut, the loss would be no different, but I would be pretty mad that she added that much risk to the equation.

On the technical side one has to look at why it happened, and what can I do to avoid that, being that I want to enjoy the sport but not die doing it. Scuba definitely has a risk to it, but to me they can be minimized by process and equipment, both which have come a long way recently. (This to me is similar to driving a car, bicycling, boating, all have risk but can be minimized the same way, process and equipment) There is always the catastrophic mishap that can happen whether one is a few miles back in a cave or standing around in the office, cannot really do much about those.

I did not know Steve Berman, but I do know solo diving upgrades the risk factor considerably, I do not need to be an expert or anything to tell that. My personal preference is to not add that much more risk to the sport.

On the Andria Doria, I may have my stories mixed up. I had read of a couple guys (and thought it was a father/son team) that did not know what they were doing and got majorly bent up, and I think died on a dive there, I have looked around but could not find it right off.

I have the book being reserved at the library and will read it soon.

On the commercial divers, I ran into a group of those and they were pretty wacky. Getting bent to them was just a part of the job, happened on a fairly regular basis. On some dives they had their boss standing with a watch sending them into the water on the minute their surface time was up....wow...

Tommy

 

[Divesherpa]

out of curiosity, who would be qualified to teach a solo cert if noone solo-ed. Thank you for your concern Natasha, but if feel it is misplaced. I solo.
My dive tonight was only about 145minutes. I went in the Eye, down main line, Hill 400, first jump on right, then back out to Hill 400, dropped stage, down about 200 feet, jump into a siphon tunnel, back a little way, back out to hill 400, down hill 400 doing a few drills. Turned dive near thirds, then ran silt out scenario. A silt out scenario is a total darkness egression from your point to open water. These are great for your ability to learn the lines.
On the way out, I picked up and switched to my stage, and continued the egression until I reached my primary reel. At this point, I lit the tunnel up, and took off through the catacombs. After about 15 minutes of playing around, I started up to do my deco in the Eye.
I thoroughly enjoyed my dive, and was safe the entire time. I had a separate bottle that was untouched, which acts as the redundant air supply of a buddy's reserve back gas. None of the people I dive with would have enjoyed this particular dive. I was just learning the cave.
I understand the theory behind having 2 brains to think things through, but in a real life scenario, the brain is the most unpredictable piece of equipment.

Cheers,
jdr

 

[Natasha]

All I can say is, "Oh Dear." According to the IMAX movie, "Amazing Caves," cave diving is the most dangerous 'sport' on earth.
I'll pray for your continued safe returns.
(since I know you will not listen to me, or anyone else, or let people like Steve's death be a testimony for you)