Welshman
senior member
What a good idea. Never heard of anything similar to this before. I'm about to do Rescue Diver. Interesting to see if they throw anything like this in to the course.
"Harrasment" drills are fun!
- Thread starter chris_b
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"Paniced" diver is always a laugh - especially when you are the panicer as it is often your one chance to get your revenge on your instructors, dm's, ai's etc.....
Enjoy
Jonathan
Enjoy
Jonathan
TheDivingBear
Registered
....paniced in a shallow and controlled enviroment where you can learn from it than to be at 35 feet or deeper and not know what to do. I am going through my confined dives now and had my first panic attack (the complete story is in New2Scuba under mouthbreather). I now know I can trust the regulator and cough and gag (and other things, if the need arises) through it.
Bear
Bear
While those drills are usualy great confidence and skill builders, there a few big problems about them concerning the instructor-
-If someone dosent like the drill he can complain (to the agency-not the centre, that will probobly back up the instructor) about the instructor and will probobly win.
-Not succeing in those drills is not a reason not to certify someone- which makes them somewhat imaterial.
-If something DOES GO WRONG the instructor will have much problems getting insurence cover since those drills are not a part of any standards.
just my two bits.
-If someone dosent like the drill he can complain (to the agency-not the centre, that will probobly back up the instructor) about the instructor and will probobly win.
-Not succeing in those drills is not a reason not to certify someone- which makes them somewhat imaterial.
-If something DOES GO WRONG the instructor will have much problems getting insurence cover since those drills are not a part of any standards.
just my two bits.
Aqua Buoy
Contributor
Following up from Liquid....
While it sounds like fun...
Is it allowed by training standards? Safe diving practices...turning air off, reduced viz...some people deal with that well....but..err what if panic does occur. You say deep end, which is probably deep enough to result in lung overexpansion injury if someone holds their breath and shoots to the surface. 7 people....sounds like a lot if you add in the AIs.
Glad you had fun, but it sounds a bit immature a game considering the risks involved...and as Liquid says...it can get the instructors into some DEEP WATER!
KEEP DIVING =-)
While it sounds like fun...
Is it allowed by training standards? Safe diving practices...turning air off, reduced viz...some people deal with that well....but..err what if panic does occur. You say deep end, which is probably deep enough to result in lung overexpansion injury if someone holds their breath and shoots to the surface. 7 people....sounds like a lot if you add in the AIs.
Glad you had fun, but it sounds a bit immature a game considering the risks involved...and as Liquid says...it can get the instructors into some DEEP WATER!
KEEP DIVING =-)
Point taken on this not being an appropriate exercise for everyone, and definitely not a reason to withhold certification. In fact, my wife started taking the class with me, but dropped out because some of it was too tough for her, both physically and mentally. A number of others also dropped out, so anyone prone to panic or at all unfomfortable in the water is long gone. Just paranthetically, my wife will be doing an OW course somewhere in Florida this summer; she'd like to do it, just in a more relaxed environment. I'll probably go through it with her, as we'd originally planned to do our OW dives there anyway.
The instructor told us that this is a "standard NAUI exercise." That may have been the case when he was certified (I believe he's been an instructor since the mid-sixties) but I doubt that it is now. At any rate, I believe he had sufficiently "weeded out" those who might have been in danger before we did this exercise.
This sort of strategy should please those who bemoan the "dumbing down" of dive training, but can also scare away people who could easily become good divers. So, while I enjoy the course, I'm very happy that there are other, less demanding options for people like my wife. If I don't get her interested in diving, I think I am in big trouble! :boom:
The instructor told us that this is a "standard NAUI exercise." That may have been the case when he was certified (I believe he's been an instructor since the mid-sixties) but I doubt that it is now. At any rate, I believe he had sufficiently "weeded out" those who might have been in danger before we did this exercise.
This sort of strategy should please those who bemoan the "dumbing down" of dive training, but can also scare away people who could easily become good divers. So, while I enjoy the course, I'm very happy that there are other, less demanding options for people like my wife. If I don't get her interested in diving, I think I am in big trouble! :boom:
ScubaBurt
Contributor
I must give credit to the inovation of your dive instructor. Whether it was part of NAUI instruction or just his imagination, it is a good exercise. Sounds like he was trying to prepare you for circumstances that could well occur to a dive while diving. Remember, you were in a controlled pool environment, help was just a fin kick away, and they were watching each student for their reaction. In the normal dive only your buddy is watching you. It's better to learn in a controlled situation than at 60+ feet. Our open water instructor taught us pretty much what you are describing, he then taught us how to how to correct the situation if it happened to your buddy or a diver near you. I have helped quite a few with lost masks, lost fins, and tanks loosened from a BC. I was good to know how these circumstances feel when they happen to you and how to help when they occur to someone else.
Just my $.02 worth.
Just my $.02 worth.
First of all, Lady-Diver - I haven't realized I've been away for so long! It was due to end of term in univercity, which means a test period (and dont ask how it went.... 
A true diver is too lazy to study properly!!!). I am quite ok, I wasn't called for service but a lot of my friends were, and that's about it. I did browse the site once or twice but didnt have the time for more than that.
and now, to the matter of the message- Someone asked if those exercizes are alowed by agencys, and I willdo my best to answer-
First of all, in TIDF (the israely diving federation) mask snatching and tank closing is a part of regular training (or at least was- I dont really know what's going on with them these days, this organization is falling apart). They had also several other exercizes. From this it is posibble to conclude that CMAS also does it, as TIDF is (actualy was) a part of CMAS.
Now, for the bigger organizations-
PADI is the organization that stands for the least amount of freedom for the individual instructor. With PADI an instructor dives in very grey waters with those exercizes, and may not recive backup from the organization if something happens.
SSI does alow and incourage instructors to add their own exercizes (the 80/20 method, to whom it says something). Will they stand by an instructor if something goes wrong during an exercize such as the one discussed?
I don't know. It's grey water here also, but somewhat brihter than PADI's.
As fr NAUI-I dont really know, but I guess thatn this matter they are more like SSI than PADI.
Now as for myself- I did use some "Extra chalenging" exercisez when tought courses, but nothing like the one described in the start (well-we didnt really have the right facilities
). I'll tell you about one such exercise- in eilat there's a beach that a lot of dive-centers use to teach, which is called Aqua-sport beach (after the diving center that is on the beach). It's a great beach to teach, that looks like it was made for it- a steady slope up to 3 meters deep for shalow practicing, than a steep one up to 20M and another steep up to 30M. Add to it the visibility of a swiming pool and you get a geat teaching place. Anyway- I'm drifting away- in the waters, at the shalow part there's a concrete sewege tube, about a meter wide, 6M long, that goes from about 3M deep to 3.5M deep (a very moderate slope). first thing with it-is just trying to swim through it without touching the tube- a great bouyancy exercize!!!!
now- After a few dives at the area in which the students went through the tube for at least a couple of time we go there, and as usual, I'd go in the tube, and than one by one the students will. this time instead of waitng on the other side, I wait on top of the tube, where the students can't see me. Now the fun begins- a student comes and I "mollest" him,when he can't expect it. I can close a tank, than come to front let the student see me, while he still has air and watch how he deals when air stops,. than he sits down and I wait for the next one and so on. Lot's of fun!!!
Actualy- Whenever I teach a skill I like to test it right away- even in the first pool-scuba, while students stand on their knees, in very shalow waters, I snatch masks and watch how they deal with it, will they take their head out of the water or just put the mask on again, and smile at me afterwards. This gives me a very good perspective of what kind of students I am to handle.
Well, that's about it. As usual, I got carried away and write about stuff I didnt intend to, but that's me
A true diver is too lazy to study properly!!!). I am quite ok, I wasn't called for service but a lot of my friends were, and that's about it. I did browse the site once or twice but didnt have the time for more than that.and now, to the matter of the message- Someone asked if those exercizes are alowed by agencys, and I willdo my best to answer-
First of all, in TIDF (the israely diving federation) mask snatching and tank closing is a part of regular training (or at least was- I dont really know what's going on with them these days, this organization is falling apart). They had also several other exercizes. From this it is posibble to conclude that CMAS also does it, as TIDF is (actualy was) a part of CMAS.
Now, for the bigger organizations-
PADI is the organization that stands for the least amount of freedom for the individual instructor. With PADI an instructor dives in very grey waters with those exercizes, and may not recive backup from the organization if something happens.
SSI does alow and incourage instructors to add their own exercizes (the 80/20 method, to whom it says something). Will they stand by an instructor if something goes wrong during an exercize such as the one discussed?
I don't know. It's grey water here also, but somewhat brihter than PADI's.
As fr NAUI-I dont really know, but I guess thatn this matter they are more like SSI than PADI.
Now as for myself- I did use some "Extra chalenging" exercisez when tought courses, but nothing like the one described in the start (well-we didnt really have the right facilities
). I'll tell you about one such exercise- in eilat there's a beach that a lot of dive-centers use to teach, which is called Aqua-sport beach (after the diving center that is on the beach). It's a great beach to teach, that looks like it was made for it- a steady slope up to 3 meters deep for shalow practicing, than a steep one up to 20M and another steep up to 30M. Add to it the visibility of a swiming pool and you get a geat teaching place. Anyway- I'm drifting away- in the waters, at the shalow part there's a concrete sewege tube, about a meter wide, 6M long, that goes from about 3M deep to 3.5M deep (a very moderate slope). first thing with it-is just trying to swim through it without touching the tube- a great bouyancy exercize!!!!now- After a few dives at the area in which the students went through the tube for at least a couple of time we go there, and as usual, I'd go in the tube, and than one by one the students will. this time instead of waitng on the other side, I wait on top of the tube, where the students can't see me. Now the fun begins- a student comes and I "mollest" him,when he can't expect it. I can close a tank, than come to front let the student see me, while he still has air and watch how he deals when air stops,. than he sits down and I wait for the next one and so on. Lot's of fun!!!
Actualy- Whenever I teach a skill I like to test it right away- even in the first pool-scuba, while students stand on their knees, in very shalow waters, I snatch masks and watch how they deal with it, will they take their head out of the water or just put the mask on again, and smile at me afterwards. This gives me a very good perspective of what kind of students I am to handle.
Well, that's about it. As usual, I got carried away and write about stuff I didnt intend to, but that's me
DEEP SEA
Contributor
Great to hear about your class. Training like that may save your life someday. It did mine!
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