Happy to always dive advanced within recreational limits, forever ? [Poll]

[stuartv]

I want just enough He to take the edge off from the “dark narc” - a number of Great Lakes divers have told me they get it without a bit of He. Sunday was my first taste of it and it was not fun. I do know a couple of instructors (and have talked with one) next state over who do Helitrox in combo with AN/DP. Depends on a couple of things: scheduling since they’re at least 3 hours away, and if I want to continue through AN/DP locally with my SM instructor whom I love and am building a relationship with.

TDI standards allow an instructor who is qualified to teach Trimix to teach Helitrox as part of AN/DP. When done that way, it does not require any extra dives. The only difference in the course is two chapters of the book - the chapter on gas planning and the chapter on physiology. The instructors I know that can teach Trimix do not charge any extra to include Helitrox in their AN/DP course.

If an AN/DP instructor is not qualified as a Trimix instructor, then they cannot incorporate Helitrox into the course.

For someone like you, I would definitely consider doing AN/DP with an instructor that can include Helitrox. Even if that means training with someone different than who you have been training with.

And on that subject, I have now done technical training with 3 different instructors and gotten a very insider view of how another instructor teaches AN/DP, even though I did not do my training with him.

I think there is a lot of benefit in training with different people - even if the one you started with is very good. I think training with 2 good instructors is better than doing 2 courses with the same one instructor, even if that instructor is very good.

 

[Hoag]

I am quite happy to remain within recreational limits and here is why:

I have, and have had, enough stress in my life. (I spent 30 years in a career where a simple mistake such as mixing up left & right could result in people actually dying.) I dive only on vacation, and I look to diving as a much needed way to release some of that stress and therefore, I seek out diving situations that offer me a relaxing time under water. I prefer to dive in water that some have compared to "toilet water": turquoise, unlimited vis and no colder than "room temperature". I look at 60-110 feet as my "sweet spot" and I am quite content there.

For me, I want to go on a vacation with good friends and have fun. I enjoy looking at (and photographing) bright coral and reef fish. I also have a fondness for sharks, but I have been able to find plenty of those above 110 ft. I have been below 110 feet of course but those dives are the exception and not the rule.

As for those who think that without knowing my SAC rate or my RMV, that I can not plan my dive, I would argue that I can very effectively plan my dive, I simply plan it with different parameters and variables. I know that when I hit XXX PSI, I have to turn around. At YYY PSI, I want to be hangin' out under the boat and I want to be back on the boat when I hit the pressure that we were briefed that the dive op wants us back on board with. It may not be planning the dive in the same way as a tec diver would plan their dive, but it is a method that gets me back on board safely.

So, speaking for myself, I have no desire at all to venture into the tec diving realm. While my "sweet spot" is 60-110 feet in warm turquoise water, I know that others will find their sweet spot in totally different conditions.

 

[Marie13]

For someone like you, I would definitely consider doing AN/DP with an instructor that can include Helitrox. Even if that means training with someone different than who you have been training with.

And on that subject, I have now done technical training with 3 different instructors and gotten a very insider view of how another instructor teaches AN/DP, even though I did not do my training with him.

I think there is a lot of benefit in training with different people - even if the one you started with is very good. I think training with 2 good instructors is better than doing 2 courses with the same one instructor, even if that instructor is very good.

I’m going to be rather frank. My local instructor is a known quantity. He is not an asshat. He does not belittle. He is very patient. Also is very devious, which makes class much more interesting and fun. He is very tough, but fair. The two possible instructors who do AN/DP/Helitrox combined are more “known.” That intimidates me. I had a very rocky start with diving. Two years in, there are still things I struggle with. I would much rather go through AN/DP with the local guy who is excellent and will make sure I am ready for Helitrox, instead of going with someone more well known and maybe looking like a fool. I am afraid of looking like an idiot.

 

[stuartv]

I would much rather go through AN/DP with the local guy who is excellent and will make sure I am ready for Helitrox, instead of going with someone more well known and maybe looking like a fool. I am afraid of looking like an idiot.

Well, you really gotta do what, and only what, you are comfortable with.

My opinion is, if you are ready for AN/DP then you are ready for Helitrox. They are the same in all practical aspects.

Hopefully, you will find a way to get over worrying about looking like an idiot. I have learned a lot by not being afraid of that and then being successful at it (successful at looking like an idiot). I would definitely rather look like an idiot in front of an (good and patient) instructor than look like an idiot out in the wild, in front of other random divers.

One possibility might be to do Intro to Tech with your local guy. If he does a good job with you, by the time you pass that you should have all the dive skills necessary to pass an AN/DP/H class. And hopefully you would also have confidence in yourself to do it, too.

 

[Marie13]

@stuartv

My ITT for SM would be TDI SM (same instructor). Hope to do it next year, but we’ll see.

 

[EireDiver606]

I plan on going the tech route asap once I have the skills to do it, a few hundred dives maybe, who knows, but I’m not planning on doing it “just because”. It seems a lot of divers do “tech diving” just to say that they do it and somehow they’re superiour or have bigger balls than you.

I really want to do tech diving, not necessarily for the deep but just to stay as long as possible underwater! I’d love to be able to dive wrecks in the 30m range and stay there for an hour.
Eventually I’d love to go into deep diving and cave maybe but that’s a looong way away and I think people who progress too quickly, are running on thin ice imo.

 

[stuartv]

I plan on going the tech route asap once I have the skills to do it, a few hundred dives maybe, who knows

Another approach would be to start before you have the skills. Find a good mentor/instructor and achieve two things: Fast track learning and development of the skills. And, learn the skills the right way, the first time. I.e. avoid learning bad habits that you have to break and re-learn when you start your training.

In other words, start when you feel you are ready to learn the skills, versus waiting until you think "have the skills". Or maybe I just made it into more words but that's really what you meant.

 

[EireDiver606]

Another approach would be to start before you have the skills. Find a good mentor/instructor and achieve two things: Fast track learning and development of the skills. And, learn the skills the right way, the first time. I.e. avoid learning bad habits that you have to break and re-learn when you start your training.

In other words, start when you feel you are ready to learn the skills, versus waiting until you think "have the skills". Or maybe I just made it into more words but that's really what you meant.

Well I need to have almost perfect buoyancy control and trim to do the courses I want to do. Thanks for the reply but IMO if you dont have skills that increase your safety, then you don’t have safety. Also, just want to get more experienced first before doing more “advanced” diving.
I understand what you mean though.

 

[stuartv]

Well I need to have almost perfect buoyancy control and trim to do the courses I want to do. Thanks for the reply but IMO if you dont have skills that increase your safety, then you don’t have safety. Also, just want to get more experienced first before doing more “advanced” diving.
I understand what you mean though.

Right. What I was trying to say is that you need to have very good buoyancy control and trim to *graduate* from those courses. You don't necessarily have to have those things to *start* the course. Depending on what course it is and the instructor, of course. I started Advanced Nitrox and Deco Procedures when I had only around 50 dives. That was because my instructor was willing to work with me over time and "bring me along" so to speak. It was about 9 months from the time I started until I finished. But, I like to think that during that time, I learned things the right way the first time and never had much chance to develop any really bad habits that I had to work to unlearn.

In contrast, in my same class, I had a fellow student that was an experienced Open Water instructor. She struggled a LOT more than I did because she had developed a very strong tendency to hover with her trim at about a 45 degree angle. That worked okay for her to be able to watch her students when teaching. But, my tech instructor was having none of that and it was really hard for her to change her diving to keep in flat trim while performing skills. She also had pretty good buoyancy control - when hovering in her accustomed trim. But, once she was required to maintain a flat profile the task loading of maintaining flat trim AND doing other skills sort of threw her buoyancy control out the window, too.

Unfortunately (for everyone else), I think I was very lucky in finding the kind of instructor that I found. I have the impression that there are a lot of tech instructors that teach a 3 or 4 day class and if you don't show up already having the basic skills under your belt you are either going to not pass the class or, even worse, you are going to pass the class when you shouldn't.

I have pretty limited experience with other tech divers outside of the circle of people who were mostly all trained by the same instructor as I was. But, a friend was telling me just yesterday about seeing a variety of tech divers up at Juturna Springs in the last couple of months who exhibited really poor buoyancy control and poor trim. And he said these were divers who were already certified for tech and already had a number of tech dives under their belt. That is a very disappointing state of affairs, to me.

 

[broncobowsher]

For the longest time I was a typical recreational diver. One time I was out on the Yukon in San Diego doing a 90' 20 minute dive. It dawned on me that there is a lot of work and expense to spend 20 minutes there. I knew there was more to offer. Went tech. Now 40 minutes on the Yukon is a lot more enjoyable. There isn't the pressure of the clock ticking down as fast. It also opened up 20 minute dives on the Oriskany at 150'. And the addition of a rebreather will open that even further.