hand signal to say "equalize your mask!" ?

[Aqualovr]

I don't think a hand signal would have made a difference there. Didn't you say he didn't what mask equalization was?
Seems like anything you could have done would have seemed unintelligible.

That said, the two signals I've seen my instructor use:
1) a. Point to mask. b. Push hands together palm facing each other to illustrate "squeeze"

2) a. watch me. b. Place hand on top of mask. c. blow gently through nose to clear. d. now you.

I did that...his bug eyed response was just a hand delivered "ok" I repeated, that same instruction, and he(again) repeated the "ok", it was then I realized that he was clueless...
I've asked other instructors whom I respect about what I (should have) done next, and I got some of the same answers as I've recieved in here, but overall, they agreed that I did the right thing...the question I asked, and it seems fair and worthy to me is, is there a clear,distinct hand signal that specifies (equalize your mask) again, had I asked him to clear it, he may have cleared it & been fine, but with the clueless, agreeing response I was getting, I thought it adding risk so I immediatly called the dive...

 

[dlndavid]

it sounds like your problem is not a hand signal at all, but a stupid diver.

 

[Aqualovr]

it sounds like your problem is not a hand signal at all, but a stupid diver.

Thanks, I guess you nailed it...

 

[Mike Edmonston]

it sounds like your problem is not a hand signal at all, but a stupid diver.

BINGO!

No amount of hand signals could have helped "hickie boy!" I would have used it as a chance to do a SCUBA refresher course with him for $50.

1. make a better diver
2. make some dough
3. maybe sell some gear

Cheers

Mike

 

[Mauifish]

it sounds like your problem is not a hand signal at all, but a stupid diver.

I gotta step in {spurs jingling} I just read here about new diver with communication problem :
#1 , how do you know you communicated correctly to said newbie diver.

#2 How can you expect a new diver to remember everything, he is NEW to this!

#3 It sounds like you were stressing the guy out with your insistant hand signals

#4 Lets hope this new diver is not turned off now to diving

 

[ClayJar]

1. Communication is not "correct" or "incorrect". It is successful or unsuccessful. In this case, the whole point of the story is that it was unsuccessful.
2. As for me, I don't expect much of a new diver, but among the things I do expect is for a diver to know when he's squeezing his brains out his eye sockets. If he doesn't know that diving's not supposed to hurt, he was not taught to dive.
3. Not much alternative there, eh? Try to communicate, call the dive, or continue the dive (injuries be darned!)?
4. Let's hope the new diver either gets turned off to diving (preventing injuries) or, even better, gets turned on to the fact that diving's not supposed to hurt you and leave you looking like you just took a high stick.

I'm all for helping new divers as much as I possibly can, and I go far out of my way to do so. While I wouldn't use a word like "stupid" (even mockingly -- I'm too polite), the person in question does not know enough to dive safely, and that should not be soft-pedaled to the point of being ignorable.


What I'd probably have done is try the "clear your mask" mime (look at me, I clear my mask, now you), but after the second attempt when he signaled "OK", I would signaled commandingly (i.e. exaggerated, punctuated movements):

YOU (point at him)
MASK (tap the sides of my mask)
*NOT* (forearms crossed with hands straight [making a big X], slicing across each other and out to the sides [almost like calling a runner safe at the plate])
OK (okay signal, done sharply)...

YOU (point at him)
MASK-CLEARING-THING (the usual)
(No OK signal here, as you're trying to communicate an absolute *ORDER*)

Of course, if you're diving as equals, this is not something you'd normally do, but if you're diving as the leader, instructor, or experienced mentor person, making it clear that you're actually commanding, not suggesting, is sometimes necessary to get someone to do what they don't know they need to do (like equalizing a mask). Of course, it may be that the diver you end up ordering gives you a flaming piece of his mind when he gets to the surface ("Who do you think you are, telling me what to do, you JERK!"), but you can practice your diplomatic skills (i.e. *not* saying, "I'm sorry you're an idiot!" ), and if you're good about it, you might just help him learn something.

(If he doesn't admit to learning anything, you can be sure he'll remember being pushed around underwater, and who knows, that might be enough to help him remember to do it.)

 

[rottielover]

It seems to me that a lot of the "pro" divers (DM's Instructors, etc.) seem to be a bit hessitant to impart knowlage for fear of "ticking" off someone... (at least face to face, here on scubaboard is a different matter )

I admit that there are people out there that think the know everything, but from my point of view, I can't see myself ever being angry or ticked off about a suggestion...

I still consider myself to be a "Brand new" diver, even though I'm not straight out of OW training. I love to get suggestions, and hear stories from those with more experiance, I feel it helps me to improve my diving, and I like the fact that I'm continually learning new things, or different techniques to acomplish the same task, etc.

I guess my only point here, would be too say to eveyone with lots of experiance (or DM's or Instructors), Please don't be "afraid" to make suggestions. Yes, you may have to count to 10, take a deep breath, and then talk, but I really don't see the issue as long as your farely diplomatic about the whole thing. There is a complete difference from telling someone "your an idiot" and telling someone "next time, why don't you try it this way, I think you'll find the following benifits from doing it this way ...."

At least I for one, am ALWAYS open to suggestions, and in general "talk" from those more experianced.

So, if you don't get anything else from my post, just know that there are those of us newbies that would love to get more personal attention, especially when it can help us to improve ourselves. HTH

 

[Fish_Whisperer]

It seems to me that a lot of the "pro" divers (DM's Instructors, etc.) seem to be a bit hessitant to impart knowlage for fear of "ticking" off someone... (at least face to face, here on scubaboard is a different matter )

I admit that there are people out there that think the know everything, but from my point of view, I can't see myself ever being angry or ticked off about a suggestion...

I still consider myself to be a "Brand new" diver, even though I'm not straight out of OW training. I love to get suggestions, and hear stories from those with more experiance, I feel it helps me to improve my diving, and I like the fact that I'm continually learning new things, or different techniques to acomplish the same task, etc.

I guess my only point here, would be too say to eveyone with lots of experiance (or DM's or Instructors), Please don't be "afraid" to make suggestions. Yes, you may have to count to 10, take a deep breath, and then talk, but I really don't see the issue as long as your farely diplomatic about the whole thing. There is a complete difference from telling someone "your an idiot" and telling someone "next time, why don't you try it this way, I think you'll find the following benifits from doing it this way ...."

At least I for one, am ALWAYS open to suggestions, and in general "talk" from those more experianced.

So, if you don't get anything else from my post, just know that there are those of us newbies that would love to get more personal attention, especially when it can help us to improve ourselves. HTH

Right on! Nicely said.

 

[Aqualovr]

BINGO!

No amount of hand signals could have helped "hickie boy!" I would have used it as a chance to do a SCUBA refresher course with him for $50.

1. make a better diver
2. make some dough
3. maybe sell some gear

Cheers

Mike

Good answer, since that time I'm more aware of the "third alternative" And also that just because someone seems aware and responsive, you still can't be absolutely sure that they fully comprehend. I've thought long and hard about the whole experience, how something so simple and basic, should never be taken for granted. Thanks

 

[Aqualovr]

1. Communication is not "correct" or "incorrect". It is successful or unsuccessful. In this case, the whole point of the story is that it was unsuccessful.
2. As for me, I don't expect much of a new diver, but among the things I do expect is for a diver to know when he's squeezing his brains out his eye sockets. If he doesn't know that diving's not supposed to hurt, he was not taught to dive.
3. Not much alternative there, eh? Try to communicate, call the dive, or continue the dive (injuries be darned!)?
4. Let's hope the new diver either gets turned off to diving (preventing injuries) or, even better, gets turned on to the fact that diving's not supposed to hurt you and leave you looking like you just took a high stick.

I'm all for helping new divers as much as I possibly can, and I go far out of my way to do so. While I wouldn't use a word like "stupid" (even mockingly -- I'm too polite), the person in question does not know enough to dive safely, and that should not be soft-pedaled to the point of being ignorable.


What I'd probably have done is try the "clear your mask" mime (look at me, I clear my mask, now you), but after the second attempt when he signaled "OK", I would signaled commandingly (i.e. exaggerated, punctuated movements):

YOU (point at him)
MASK (tap the sides of my mask)
*NOT* (forearms crossed with hands straight [making a big X], slicing across each other and out to the sides [almost like calling a runner safe at the plate])
OK (okay signal, done sharply)...

YOU (point at him)
MASK-CLEARING-THING (the usual)
(No OK signal here, as you're trying to communicate an absolute *ORDER*)

Of course, if you're diving as equals, this is not something you'd normally do, but if you're diving as the leader, instructor, or experienced mentor person, making it clear that you're actually commanding, not suggesting, is sometimes necessary to get someone to do what they don't know they need to do (like equalizing a mask). Of course, it may be that the diver you end up ordering gives you a flaming piece of his mind when he gets to the surface ("Who do you think you are, telling me what to do, you JERK!"), but you can practice your diplomatic skills (i.e. *not* saying, "I'm sorry you're an idiot!" ), and if you're good about it, you might just help him learn something.

(If he doesn't admit to learning anything, you can be sure he'll remember being pushed around underwater, and who knows, that might be enough to help him remember to do it.)

You made some good points, thanks