Halcyon Equipment for PADI Training

[Ron Brandt]

Are there any PADI instructors out there that use the Halcyon wing and backplate for training new students ?

I am thinking of purchasing several sets to use for instruction.

If anyone from PADI HQ is on here let me know !

Thanks

Ron

 

[tombiowami]

I doubt there are many as PADI instructors are usually operating out of dive shops they do not generally have a large presence of bp/wings in them. I doubt the PADI mag, sportdiver has too many adverts for them either.

You may want to phone down to Extreme Exposure as they teach OW classes out of there and would think they use the Halcyon gear. One of the DIR principles is learning on one set of gear that is fine for basic training and OW up to extensive cave/tech diving. Of course you make some mods but the overall idea/setup is the same. I think the bp/wings is much easier to use and also more comfy, though of course that is just opinion. I think one thing really missing from basic OW classes is good gear config. We were taught just leave the octo/console just hanging anywhere. Learning how to retreive the octo from behind us was a skill. I am not sure why you would ever want any part of needed gear behind you.

Tommy

 

[Ron Brandt]

Thanks. Yes I have been in contact with Jerrod Jablonski and George Irvine (WKPP,Halcyon,Extreme Exposure etc) for many years.Although JJ is head of GUE he is also a PADI instructor I believe.

As you may have guest what I am doing is essently starting up a dive shop but not a full blown operation at this time. Trey often notes that the best instructors are the ones that are not dependent on earning a sole income from diving.

I am a true beliver in DIR but the market here is PADI (brand name ) I would love to see PADI and all the other agencies accept dir in Open Water cert and not just in Tec Rec.

When I set out to go from advanced diver to Instructor my instructor WOULD NOT ALLOW me to use a Wing and Backplate.
So I switched to the next closest thing a Zegal Ranger. When I show up at a dive site or the pool for fun with my doubles everbody thinks my wing and backplate is old compared to the same set up with a Ranger purchased the same year !(not mine)

As for the dangling gear ,yes it has now been adopted into
into a retrieval skill

Ron
Ron

 

[tombiowami]

I agree. The instructor who has taught me the most is a friend also who does not make his living doing it. He mainly helps out the dive shops when they need and then certifies friends or referrals if he wants. He learned from a guy at a university where they teach OW in a full semester.

One of our local Padi shops is a Halcyon dealer but has none of the gear except a couple lift bags out. I can order through them, but why pay extra when I can get pretty good deals at EE?

I think a lot of people treat DIR as some treat people or cultures they do not understand or fear. They talk bad about it without really learning it first. My experiences, even as a new diver with the guys at EE has been top rate, very, very friendly. Some of the best customer experiences I have ever had.

I also have a Zeagle and it is hard to believe someone would not let you wear a bp/wings. I only have 24 dives or so, and the difference even at my level is like night and day. The bp really lets me concentrate on what I am down there to do, have fun, look around, and be safe. With other bcs I have always been fighting with them as the compression changed or they moved while I was upside down.

I forget the bp is even there. Good luck with your shop! Maybe you could contact Padi about a DIR cert. Maybe Halcyon would even get behind it. My main beef with basic OW is that there is not really rhyme or reason to the config that is taught. The main reason is most of it is driven by marketing and not diving. You can disagree with DIR concepts, and that ultimately makes anything better, but they do have clear reasons for what they put forth and can back them up.
Tommy

 

[detroit diver]

Tommy,

I think we've got a trend going on here. My intro to DIR was thru my instructor who email'd me some info on WKPP and GUE just to get me excited about the sport. At the time, he wasn't using a BP/wings in the pools because the shop made him use their best & highest priced equipment sold at the shop. After doing some research and stumbling across DIR, I started asking questions and found out the my instructor was very much into DIR. From that point on, he didn't bring back the bc's-only the BP/wings etc.

He has been a HUGE influence on my diving. He's the only one at the shop who really dives. Like 3 times a week. As you might imagine, diving is his real love and not teaching huge classes. I should have mentioned that the reason he got us (my son and I) as students was that we wanted a semi-private and the other instructors wanted the large class cash flow.

Much of my diving is with him and his buddies now. Night, cold dives. Shooting videos of jellyfish! Practicing drysuit bouyancy operating a camera!

I think I'm rambling on here, but your comment hit home.

 

[tombiowami]

Yes, my take is that most dive instructors have an inherent conflict of interest in that they are dive shop salesman also. Like car or anything else salesman, there are some good and some bad. The bad will say everything they have is good, and the rest you need to stay away from. The good will give you the whole story and let you make up your mind.

Being in a capitalist society that is great, we just need to understand everyone's motivation. If the diveshop guy tells everyone to go buy another product, soon he is out of a job, so there is a fine line.

To their benefit, talking to Dave at EE, he was clear as to what advice he gave, EE diveshop Dave, and DIR cave diving dave. I thought it was great, let me make up my own mind about stuff since I may or may not want to go with that gear or whatever. Good bp/wings also have a problem in that they are so simple, and most of the dir gear so well made, that one is not likely to keep buying it over and over since it does not wear out. This is another problem for them as they still need to sell stuff. It seems Halcyon has done pretty good about not just having misc. gear made with their name on it to sell.

Tommy

 

[scuba_adventurer]

I would probably not use BP/Wings for ow just because their technical image may not be comforting for all people. Jacket style bc's are more stable on the surface, and that is a big comfort factor for nervous students.

One thought, if you want to use Halcyon in training to sell more of it is to see if you can get PADI to recognize a DIR course as and Instructor Authored Distinctive Specialtyl. I actually know quite a few people who would take it because of interest in that method of diving.

 

[divernva]

PADI could teach the DIR concept, but the DIR community would most likely never trust a PADI certification.

If it were a possibility, I would rather have the GUE recognition than PADI. Rigors and standardization of training.

To comment on the original post, I don't think there is anything wrong in training students with a BP/wing setup. It's going to take a lot more patience. You'll have to teach students how to distribute weight to compensate for the characteristics of a wing on the surface... because no matter how much you tell them not to inflate fully on the surface, their brains will say otherwise. The flip side is that it will help them with trim at depth, but then again PADI teaches head-up descent / ascent.

Most dive centers don't rent BP/wing rigs so the lack of familiarity of equipment could be a detriment to the OW diver. But then, if you can dive a rig, a jacket style BC shouldn't be a problem.

 

[MnLakeDiver]

As a reciently certifed PADI OW diver all I can report on is my own inctructor who used a jacket style bc for the pool sesions and a Halcyon bp and wing for the OW dives. He also baught a BP Wings setup for me as the Jackets he had did not fit me well. his personal gear is dir as far as i can tell (still reading up on the system). btw he taught us the PADI corse and then we did 2 additional dives where he tought us skills out side of the PADI system.

 

[detroit diver]

Divernva,

I couldn't agree with you more. Although PADI does a reasonable job in getting the masses thru, they'd have to charge a lot more to do a DIR course, and most people wouldn't know the difference beforehand anyway and wouldn't pay the price. In
addition, its more a state of mind than a rig config.

As for trusting PADI doing DIR "right", just look at some of their "specialty" certificates. Some are just a bunch of money sucking junk. What would they do with DIR?

I would love to do a GUE course even though I'm PADI certified. EVERYTHING I've read and learned about this course tells me that I would come away a much better diver. We've actually been trying to get someone to come to Michigan, but can't get enough students yet to make it work.

The problem with selling students on BP/wings is-its not cool looking, doesn't have enough doo-dads, and the LDS cant sell enough stuff down the road. Not being able to learn surface flotation is a bunch of cr*p. Anyone with a little practice can do this.

Jack