H2O Odyssey Spare Air

[O2BBubbleFree]

Dude.. this is not a situation where you have to have had to come close to a near death experience to comment. Look up "rock bottom" then get out your calculator and plan a dive to 100ft and tell me if your little Spare Air will get you out of an OOA situation safely.

Dude.. read through the thread and you'll find "little Spare Air" is not the issue.

 

[PugetDiver]

I'm interested in this subject of backup air provided by the H2Odyssey product. As a new diver I often wonder why bailout bottles are not more widely used by recreational divers for an additional measure of safety. I am also puzzled why small backup bottles are always discussed in terms of providing enough air to get to the surface with a safety stop. What about providing extra time to reach a buddy and safely begin sharing air before ascending. I'm told being suddenly and totally cut off from your air is very rare. I recently heard a story from an instructor about a guy who had his 1st stage suddenly stop functioning. The diver was swimming Devil's Throat in Cozumel about 120' down. He had to swim about 40' feet to share air from the DM. When I think of OOA situations I tend to think more about getting the buddy's attention and swimming to him more than going right to the surface. Sure, I understand being close to your buddy is the desired plan and is part of training. But if you are not close for any reason you need time and a clear head to get your buddy's ( or DM's ) attention to get to that air source. When drift diving in Cozumel there were moments when buddies weren't really close to each other. There were also times when kicking against current was work to get back to the buddy or group that stopped to look at something. I can't help but think having a little extra air within reach to give you an extra minute or two would be desireable and smart. Also I'm curious how you would deal with a bailout bottle if you were traveling by air and using dive ops like you find in Coz.
Rex

I think you make some great points about enough time to get control and reach your buddy.

I would add, Air doesn't suddenly cut out when your tank is dry. It is a process that starts at around 65 PSI with increased difficulty breathing. It would be nice to have Spare Air 3CF/ H2O Odyssey 6CF handy in this situation. Switching to this system and safely ascending to your safety stop and then switching back to the primary tank to finish it off, should get you to the surface. But when TOTALY out of air, isn't it better to get to the surface and face a day in the chamber than the alternative? The 3 CF bottle should at least get you to the surface in any recreational diving (non overhead & 130 ft maximum) situation.

Wouldn't a Spare Air / H2O Odyssey be of good use if your buddy were in need of air? I would rather shove a 3 CF bottle in his mouth until the panic attack is over and we are at our 15 ft safety stop where I could switch him/her to my OCTO. 2 people breathing off the same tank is not ideal in a panic situation.

FOR THOSE WHO HAVE USED "SPARE AIR":

Has anyone tested the "Spare Air" 3 CF system? Did you get close to 50 breaths that they claim?

 

[Jaci]

I just ran this scenario with a well seasoned instructor. I have the 6 cf H2O Odyssey system and was wondering if it was really practical. I guess the answer to that is that it depends? What is your depth, breathing rate, current etc. At 100' with 6 cf you have about 12 breaths, chasing after your buddy isn't what I'd do unless he/she is looking at you and can see you need to ascend. If you have to swim against the current to the ascent line, you're in trouble. I check my SAC rate pretty closely after each dive and I'm a bit of a gas hog, I know, comes with the large frame and having too much fun underwater swimming around. My rates are between 0.6 - 0.75 cfm/atm and when there is current or a little more activity it can go up to almost 1.0. I used the 1.0 to plan how much gas I'd need at 100', you can even go a step further and estimate one breath per 10' and figure it out. Anyways at 100' I'm going to take a breath and use about .5 cf, at 90' .45 cf, at 80' .4 cf, at 70' .35 cf, at 60' .3 cf, so on you can expect to use about 2-2.5 cf if you ascend at about 60 fpm for the first 40', and another 3 - 3.5 cf for the rest of the trip to the surface without a stop or a swim. The 6 cf will get you to the surface under relatively ideal circumstances or if you are a light gas user. If you add a safety stop at 15', you will need another 3 cf.

I like the idea of a pony bottle because I don't have to worry about how far my buddy is, whether they are interested in setting up a shot while I'm having an OOA or the myriad of reasons a buddy may not be all that close, particularly when I'm diving with someone I'm not sure about. You should figure your own gas usage, but I wanted to know what to expect from the 6 cf pony bottle (no guage) and I know that if I take it down with me, I better make for the surface without delay. I plan on buying a 13 or 19cf and attach it to my tank whenever I go deep.

 

[aquaoren]

I think you make some great points about enough time to get control and reach your buddy.

I would add, Air doesn't suddenly cut out when your tank is dry. It is a process that starts at around 65 PSI with increased difficulty breathing. It would be nice to have Spare Air 3CF/ H2O Odyssey 6CF handy in this situation. Switching to this system and safely ascending to your safety stop and then switching back to the primary tank to finish it off, should get you to the surface. But when TOTALY out of air, isn't it better to get to the surface and face a day in the chamber than the alternative? The 3 CF bottle should at least get you to the surface in any recreational diving (non overhead & 130 ft maximum) situation.

Wouldn't a Spare Air / H2O Odyssey be of good use if your buddy were in need of air? I would rather shove a 3 CF bottle in his mouth until the panic attack is over and we are at our 15 ft safety stop where I could switch him/her to my OCTO. 2 people breathing off the same tank is not ideal in a panic situation.

FOR THOSE WHO HAVE USED "SPARE AIR":

Has anyone tested the "Spare Air" 3 CF system? Did you get close to 50 breaths that they claim?

Even with the danger of repeating myself or the words of other:
Running out of air shows of poor dive planning and gas managment.
Diving too far from your buddy so you can't reach him on emergencies or diving with someone that doesn't know where you are and what you are doing shows of poor buddy and situational awareness. The same is true for allowing your buddy to run out of air.
The best way of avoiding a dangerous situation is not to allow it to get so far. Know your limits and don't try to go over them without the appropriate training.
The spare air is a crutch to compensate for avoidable mistakes and lack of skills like dive planning and awareness.
With more high quality training and experience you'll realize that a spare air as as usfull as a pimple on your nose.
Sorry if it was too harsh

 

[PugetDiver]

Even with the danger of repeating myself or the words of other:
Running out of air shows of poor dive planning and gas managment.
Diving too far from your buddy so you can't reach him on emergencies or diving with someone that doesn't know where you are and what you are doing shows of poor buddy and situational awareness. The same is true for allowing your buddy to run out of air.
The best way of avoiding a dangerous situation is not to allow it to get so far. Know your limits and don't try to go over them without the appropriate training.
The spare air is a crutch to compensate for avoidable mistakes and lack of skills like dive planning and awareness.
With more high quality training and experience you'll realize that a spare air as as usfull as a pimple on your nose.
Sorry if it was too harsh

Got it! Nothing could happen where you may need some extra breaths because you are well trained. You have also NEVER been seperated from your buddy and never dive with anyone you are not totally familiar with.

For me it's cheap insurance.

Sorry if I was too harsh

 

[aquaoren]

Got it! Nothing could happen where you may need some extra breaths because you are well trained. You have also NEVER been seperated from your buddy and never dive with anyone you are not totally familiar with.

For me it's cheap insurance.

Sorry if I was too harsh

No, never happened that I needed some extra breaths because I monitor my air closely and never ran out. My gear is in an excellent shape too so it never broke or caused me any trouble. I dive now either doubles or a big single tank with H-valves, which gives me redundancy. What in your opinion could happen that would make me be short on air and require a spare air?

Yes, I became separated from my buddy in a very strong current but I didn't wait until I ran out of air. The dive was aborted as it was discussed in the dive plan. After gathering on the surface, we continued the dive being closer and finished the dive together.

Yes, I dove with unknown people but I monitor their air even closer than my own since I know my consumption but I don't know theirs. If I have the feeling that my buddy is unsafe or dangerous, I'd rather abort the dive sooner than later. I wouldn't wait until we get into trouble. There is nothing down there that would be worth risking my life.

A little spare air isn't an insurance. It's a crutch that gives you a false sense of safety. If you think you neeed an insurance, than get yourself a decent size pony or possibly even more training.
You are a big boy and you will do what you think is right anyway. Everybody is entiteled to do their own mistakes. The smart people though learn from the mistakes of others.
Sorry again if it was a little harsh.

 

[grilla]

Thought I'd post an update - had some time to do some diving with my H20 odyssey 1st/2nd stage (with 13cu ft cylinder and hosed regulator). I carried it in front, horizontally, clipped to the D rings above the BCD pockets. The hose is secured with bungies. The position is very accessible and the reg deploys without a hitch. The reg breathes quite easily. It's also a snap to detach and pass off to a buddy. The particular carrier I have isn't so hot - it wraps around the girth of the cylinder, secures with velcro, and has 2 more straps to tighten it down. Even with everything pre-wetted and tightly strapped it still tends to slide some. Looped a couple zip ties from the neck to the top strap as a leash and that issue was solved. I'll be swapping the carrier for a bag with a closed bottom and an adjustable neck.
The second dive I had a little free flow issue - not a full-blown free flow, just a small trickle. Had it adjusted and the last several dives it was no problem.

As for the last few entries to this thread - matt unique said it best awhile back - -

"The above is the type of post you need to weed out from your SB experience. Divers who say a 'redundant breathing system is for people who don't know how to manage gas' has no idea what they are talking about. If a diver uses this system as a means to extend bottom time they also have no idea what they are doing. "

As for it being a crutch - I guess one's perception of any piece of safety equipment is an individual issue. For me it's no more a crutch than an octo, an isolation valve, a back-up computer, a back-up light---or a buddy. You could argue that any of those might lead to a false sense of safety but I think it just shows an awareness of the risks and a proactive approach to risk management. Training, equipment maintenance, discipline and situational (buddy) awareness are all vital areas and worthy of every diver's focused attention. But as important as they are, I'd say it's more likely that someone who thinks that addressing those areas eliminates all the risks ( and has a generally crappy attitude to boot) is the one with a false sense of safety. But that's just my 2 cents worth.

 

[lundysd]

I just wanted to add an outside point of view here; I come from an airline family where triple redundancy is the standard, and if I have a chance to carry a compact redundant system (in my case a 13cu ft pony) with imho little drawbacks, then I'm going to do it. I use conservative gas management and plan on never being far from my buddy, but I would rather be safe than sorry, and I know that in drift diving the possibility of being 20 feet from your buddy is very real.

Would you consider a reserve parachute a crutch? How about a safety line when climbing? You can argue all you want that these pieces of equipment aren't necessary and only add to "task overloading" and "failure-points", but look at the ratio of incidents caused by them versus the number of times they have saved lives, and for me the decision is clear.

Safe Diving,
Scott

 

[cra2]

In summary, the actual Spare Air is a 3 cu ft tank that will not get you to the surface from more than about 50 ft. and forget about a safety stop.

In case noone's seen it;
The Spare Air and Odyssey were reviewed and tested in this article at ScubaDiving.com, http://www.scubadiving.com/gear/regulators/bailout_bottles/0/
In it, they acted semi-panicked and rose no faster than their safe ascent rates. They said the spare air got them to the surface from 70' with a little extra left.
The smaller (original) spare air worked from 45 ft. And the Odyssey, from the full 132' (max rec depth).

Now, I've only been diving a little more than a year, but I have yet to see doubles OR a pony. Just buddies on dive boats with octos, going down to around 100' or less.
In these instances, having that spare air, as an added measure of safety sounds like a great idea to me. Whether it was for calmly reaching your buddy in time, or for an emergency ascent, I'd rather have SOME air than NO air. Recovering from DCS at the surface is a HELLUVALOT better than drowning at depth.

Sure, the pony would be even better, but the individual is going to have to weigh the additional cost, weight, setup and maintenance vs. the ease of slapping a bail-out bottle on their BC and jumping in. If I were diving deeper than 100', or penetrating wrecks/caves, I'm sure I'd practically be REQUIRED to carry a pony or double. And I'd have no problem with that. But considering MOST divers I've seen average 60' depths & don't carry ANYTHING but an octo,.. having Spare Air cans would be a considerable improvement, IMHO. Even if it's just to give them a few breaths' time to calm down and think & then act.

This may have been reported before, but hey, that's what public forums are for right? Endlessly rehashing the same old crap, spewing opinion after opinion?
Besides... I've never had to use a bail-out bottle yet, so technically I shouldn't be posting here anyways. But even though the original poster has already made his decision, I thought I'd point to an article where testers HAD used them and DID test their performance.

(grumble, I wish the makers of spare air would be upfront enough to post these, or their own, test results on their website vs. posting how many "surface breaths" it has.)

 

[aquaoren]

Would you consider a reserve parachute a crutch?

If the reserve parachute is of the size of 1 square meter, but of course.