Guided dives vs Non-guided dives

[scubasaint]

Can someone please explain to me how dives differ when they are not guided tours such as the type you can do at resorts. All of my diving experience to date has been of the guided type and limited to two tanks at the most.

This probably sounds like a silly question, but what do divers typically do if it is just them and a buddy and other buddy teams doing their own thing? Is there a certain distance from the boat that should be maintained when doing these types of dives?

 

[Charlie99]

Is there a certain distance from the boat that should be maintained when doing these types of dives?

Yes. You shouldn't go so far away that you can't return to the boat underwater.

Obviously, one significant difference is that without a guide, you and your buddy need to navigate. At least initially, (assuming that there isn't a strong current that forces a different strategy) I've found a good strategy in most locations is to break up the dive down into two or three segments, and pass back under the boat between each segment. And you can always spend the last 10 or 15 minutes looking at small stuff right in the vicinity of the boat.

 

[300bar]

1.guided dive,guide will race you thrue the site,showing you points of interst and brings you back to the boat asap.

2.You (and your buddy)dive along, look at every rock/coral or whatever,have the time of your life,doubble the divetime and....yes you have to navigate Sowhat

 

[stargazer61]

1.guided dive,guide will race you thrue the site,showing you points of interst and brings you back to the boat asap.

2.You (and your buddy)dive along, look at every rock/coral or whatever,have the time of your life,doubble the divetime and....yes you have to navigate Sowhat

That's not been my experience. :no The guides I have had ranged from quite good to excellent. They were able to point out stuff we would have overlooked and paced the dives appropriately. I will concede the obvious point that in a bigger group the dive gets called when the first diver gets low on air.

 

[jbd]

This probably sounds like a silly question, but what do divers typically do if it is just them and a buddy and other buddy teams doing their own thing? Is there a certain distance from the boat that should be maintained when doing these types of dives?

It just doesn't get much better than the advice or suggestion that Charlie99 gave above.

300bar divers point number two describes things pretty well also.

In each case you and your buddy are taking responsibilty for the dive. Make sure you are up to the task before hopping in the water.

 

[TSandM]

If you are diving without a guide off a boat, you will get a dive site briefing. The DM or captain will tell you what the topography underwater is, what you are looking for (a coral reef, or a wall, or whatever) and roughly where in relation to the boat it should lie. You will also be brief on entry procedures, and pickup procedures -- live boat, or anchored. You'll be told if all teams have to enter the water more or less together (eg. the oil rigs off LA) or whether it will be staggered, as almost all of our Puget Sound dives are.

Once underwater, it will be the responsibility of your team to do the navigation -- find the landmarks, follow them, and ascent at the appropriate time and place as per the briefing.

Almost all of our PugetSound charter dives are like this. It's nice, because you CAN take your time, and backtrack or wander if something catches your eye. On the other hand, it's very nice in places that are strange to you, to have someone familiar with the local life to point out the things of interest.

I just remembered something else -- NOBODY will be swimming up to you to ask you what your pressure is. It will be entirely the responsibility of your buddy team to monitor your gas, and decide when it is appropriate to turn the dive, or to ascend. You will also be responsible for the profile. Many DM-led tropical dives are shaped to a good profile (rough check mark), but if you have no guide, it's up to you to make sure the dive moves shallower as needed, and that you do the appropriate stops on the way to the surface.

Diving without a guide is grown-up diving, taking responsibility for yourselves, and marks a big step forward in your diving career. Have fun!

 

[fisherdvm]

I find that when there is unpredictable current direction, it is hard to navigate back to the boat unless you have very clear geographic natural landmark. Guided tours provide you with someone who is familiar with the dive site, and get you to the boat safely.

The risk to go to the surface to find your boat might be minimal if you are the only dive boat in the ocean, but on a busy reef, surfacing away from your boat increases the risk of getting hit by a boat.

Some folks gripe at the fact that Mexico require a DM, but it is for safety sake, as drifting boats can not follow 4 or 5 sets of bubbles... They can only follow 1 group, as many national park do not allow anchor or mooring a dive boat.

There are alot of die hard folks here on scubaboard who laughs at anyone who follow a DM or join a group dive. Honestly, most of us recreational diver can't manage to find our car in the parking lot.

Navigation can be fine if you have no current. Combine an unknown dive site, unpredictable current direction, and a drifting boat ... unless you want to risk getting hit by a boat, just do like what most vacation divers do... follow a guide.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I find that when there is unpredictable current direction, it is hard to navigate back to the boat unless you have very clear geographic natural landmark. Guided tours provide you with someone who is familiar with the dive site, and get you to the boat safely.

Using a guide is one way to take advantage of local knowledge but there are others. I think it's unfortunate that divers aren't learning how to and gaining experience in exploring new sites on their own. Personally, I enjoy that far more than I do just swimming in circles sight seeing.

The risk to go to the surface to find your boat might be minimal if you are the only dive boat in the ocean, but on a busy reef, surfacing away from your boat increases the risk of getting hit by a boat.

Another good reason to learn how tp manage your gas and navigate.

Some folks gripe at the fact that Mexico require a DM, but it is for safety sake, as drifting boats can not follow 4 or 5 sets of bubbles... They can only follow 1 group, as many national park do not allow anchor or mooring a dive boat.

From what I gather from conversations with people who live in Mexico and work in the Cozumel dive industry, the requirement for a DM is NOT for the safety of the divers. It's for the safety of the reefs. Apparently, the Mexican government doesn't have much faith in our dive skills. This too, I think is unfortunate but I don't blame them. If I owned a reef, I wouldn't let the public dive on it either unless I was watching them.

There are alot of die hard folks here on scubaboard who laughs at anyone who follow a DM or join a group dive. Honestly, most of us recreational diver can't manage to find our car in the parking lot.

I can only speak for myself but I don't see anything wrong with using a guide. However, I do see a problem with diving in herds. I think teams of two or three work the best and that's how I dive. Unless I decide to dive solo, there aren't really going to be any acceptions to this. I think this is important and I'd rather just not dive then do it some other way. If there is a guide, they necessarily become a member of a two or three diver team rather than a solo DM with a flock of divers following. This also means that I wouldn't make any assumptions about the guids skills in relation to the dive at hand that I wouldn't make about anyone elses. Having a new team member necessarily places limits on the dive. Exactly where those limits are somewhat depends on what I know about that diver.

If the guide is to make up for your own lack of skill, then, IMO, you should think twice about doing the dive. Now we've gone beyond just doing a guided dive and are doing a trust-me dive.

Navigation can be fine if you have no current. Combine an unknown dive site, unpredictable current direction, and a drifting boat ... unless you want to risk getting hit by a boat, just do like what most vacation divers do... follow a guide.

Following a guide does not insure that you won't end up surfacing in traffic. Knowing how to manage gas, shoot a bag, handle problems under water and so on will help but a guide just might not be there when you need them. We're back to the trust-me dive thing again. IMO, any member of a dive team should be able to take over any task that the team must perform. If one diver is designated to lead/navigate but, for whatever reason becomes unable to do so, someone else needs to be able to take over.

Everyone else can do what they want but if I don't think my buddy and I can get ourselves back, I'd rather just not go.

 

[Doc]

Using a guide is one way to take advantage of local knowledge but there are others. I think it's unfortunate that divers aren't learning how to and gaining experience in exploring new sites on their own. Personally, I enjoy that far more than I do just swimming in circles sight seeing.

Of all the responses, this is the only one that touched on "the other" thing about dive guides and tours.

The other discussions automaticaly focused on the technical and physical aspects of the dive itself. How about an easy-to-spot critter? I was thrilled the first time a DM showed me a Crustacean in a Barrel Sponge. To this day, I can't go by one without looking!

If you are a newb, you are very busy diving. Wouldn't it be nice to have a local DM show you a Sponge or possibly the elusive Sea Cucumber? Most newbs are staring at their SPG's until dive 22 whereupon they let it drop and drag in the coral. Diving skills take time and they certainly take all of your brain's computing power for many early dives. Newbs can't see a yellow school bus parked in 20fsw on a sunny day with its lights flashing. What's the harm of a DM? You might actualy see something cool.

To go back to the physical aspect of the dive for a moment- Assume no specific standard of care that will be offered or available from a resort based "DM". Understand that DM is a generic term that means "employee who is going diving at the same time as the group", and not much more. Do not even assume that he has a DM certification or any certification at all.

It might be good to ask, "What can I expect from your DM's?" before signing up. In the US we see a standard of care and attention that does not always transfer well to far away dive ops.

The easiest solution? Dive US based dive ops of good repute, or select your foreign destinations by their high incidence of US diver visitors (Cayman, Nassau, Grand Bahama, etc). These places suffer some derision for their well earned reputation for being overbearing and a bit controlling, but they developed these corporate survival skills after many years of once-a-year divers coming for adventure.

When you are ready for a little more freedom, go and explore. The same thing applies to critters... after you have mastered the technical requirements of simple, no-current, moored boat diving. You will look back on this time and realize how little you knew :14: It's an ongoing thing.

 

[DeNomad]

Out of curiousity, how many dives would everyone reccomend before attempted non-guided dives?