GUE recreational classes - early details

[Bismark]

Don't forget that this course looks custom made for the academic environment....................

 

[Divin'Papaw]

It is, but some people are willing to pay extra (time and money) for true quality - thats the exact market segment that GUE appeals to, and the same type of people who are willing to put in the time and effort to complete GUE training, and reap the benefits. Who knows how big of a seller it will be, thats not the only mark of success. Apple is only 6-8% market share but they lead the computer industry in many ways, watch GUE do the same to diving (TDI Intro To Tech?). Again thinking outside the box, offer quality and don't underestimate/condescend to your target market, and you may be suprised. It's worked for AAPL (compare that to MSFT).

Rob

You're assuming those in the market for entry level OW training will even hear about this course, will have any idea what quality means in OW instruction and will give a hoot about GUE vs. PADI vs. NAUI vs. SDI vs. SSI. The only place I see this course working is in an academic setting. It just will not fly in the real world, as solid as it may be.

I don't get your mention of TDI Intro to Tech. Seems very out of place. What are you getting at?

 

[Thalassamania]

Don't forget that this course looks custom made for the academic environment....................

What do you see in it that makes it well suited to an academic program? I don't think that the course will fly in a academic environment, except perhaps in cave country where a GUE Instructor is already on the institution's faculty.

 

[robzr]

You're assuming those in the market for entry level OW training will even hear about this course, will have any idea what quality means in OW instruction and will give a hoot about GUE vs. PADI vs. NAUI vs. SDI vs. SSI. The only place I see this course working is in an academic setting. It just will not fly in the real world, as solid as it may be.

I don't get your mention of TDI Intro to Tech. Seems very out of place. What are you getting at?

I'm assuming nothing, people will hear about it, of course it won't be as accessible or popular as PADI OW to begin with, but you have to start somewhere. It will be fascinating to see what happens over the next few years, GUE is changing the way people approach diving, I wish them success in changing the way people begin diving.

Again, you can't use PADI OW student metrics as a yardstick of success for this. They obviously aren't going for raw #s and quick cash like the place I got my PADI OW from in Hawaii. People who really care about quality and are willing to spend time and money on it are out there, we're just overlooked by most corporations bent on easy profit.

Apple is only 6-8% market share but they lead the computer industry in many ways, watch GUE do the same to diving (TDI Intro To Tech?).

Intro To Tech is TDIs answer to GUE Fundamentals; I was using that as an example of how GUE has lead the industry. No dig intended to TDI, I'm sure its a fine class.

Rob

 

[SparticleBrane]

Don't forget that this course looks custom made for the academic environment....................

I also do not see how this could possibly be "custom made" for the academic environment. In our university program we have our OW/Nitrox course based off of an entire semester of classes -- usually 2 days/week, 2 hours/day. This includes some basic swimming work, almost a month of skin diving, and the rest of the semester for scuba.

Personally I was surprised to hear that the Rec 1 will be their equivalent of open water -- I just can't see having such a small amount of pool time.

 

[amascuba]

Just for some perspective on the dive training costs in my local market.

OW costs:

$195 - This includes reg, bcd, tank, weight rentals, class room (3 x 3 - 4 hour sessions), pool (minimum of 2 x 4 hour sessions), PADI certification fees
$50 - PADI OW crew pack
$250 - $450 - mask, snorkel, fins, booties, weight belt, and gear bag
$125 - OW weekend - This includes two tanks, bcd, reg, wetsuit, weight rentals. Minimum of 4 people before we go to OW.
$55 - hotel costs
$80 - gas costs for travel (Assuming 20mpg round trip)
$30 - food costs
$10 - 2 x air fill at location
$8 - dive site entrance fee

AOW Costs:

$225 - This includes gear rentals, pool, OW weekend (assuming minimum of 4 people), and PADI cerfication costs
$55 - hotel costs
$80 - gas costs for travel (Assuming 20mpg round trip)
$30 - food costs
$10 - 2 x air fill at location
$8 - dive site entrance fee

Nitrox costs:

$125 - course cost
$50 - crew pack costs

Rescue costs:

$225 - includes gear rental, pool, class room
$50 - crew pack costs
$10 - gas costs

Grand Total: $1661 - $1861

I imagine, if you had a local instructor, that the GUE course costs would be similar and maybe a little cheaper if you took the GUE OW class.

 

[Divin'Papaw]

I'm assuming nothing, people will hear about it, of course it won't be as accessible or popular as PADI OW to begin with, but you have to start somewhere. It will be fascinating to see what happens over the next few years, GUE is changing the way people approach diving, I wish them success in changing the way people begin diving.

Again, you can't use PADI OW student metrics as a yardstick of success for this. They obviously aren't going for raw #s and quick cash like the place I got my PADI OW from in Hawaii. People who really care about quality and are willing to spend time and money on it are out there, we're just overlooked by most corporations bent on easy profit.

Maybe, but I still have a hard time seeing it fly. I think GUE would be better served by focusing on a bang-up AOW/Rescue/Deep course followed by their Recreational Triox. I just can't fathom why they'd want to bother with OW training. It's not until after OW training that folks really begin to get an idea of what they want out of their diving. The unique approach that GUE offers doesn't really come into play for almost everyone until that point.

I think your comparision of GUE to Apple is also reaching a bit. GUE has nowhere close to the kind of market penetration and influence that Apple has in the computer/consumer electronics market. That's one thing that is going to hurt them. We have an Apple store in Indianapolis. Apple adds are all over TV and print ... and I do love them! When it comes to the world of recreational diving, apart from us crazies who live and breath it, GUE is just about a non-entity. If I'm some guy/gal in Indianapolis and I want to learn to dive, I'll have absolutely no idea GUE exists and that they offer a top flight OW course that I should seriously consider. Unless I happen to have a friend who's a diver and is coaching me, I'll have no idea they exist.

Intro To Tech is TDIs answer to GUE Fundamentals; I was using that as an example of how GUE has lead the industry. No dig intended to TDI, I'm sure its a fine class.

That helps. I'm familiar with the class. I've taken it. I just wasn't sure what you meant.

 

[Bismark]

I also do not see how this could possibly be "custom made" for the academic environment. In our university program we have our OW/Nitrox course based off of an entire semester of classes -- usually 2 days/week, 2 hours/day. This includes some basic swimming work, almost a month of skin diving, and the rest of the semester for scuba.

Personally I was surprised to hear that the Rec 1 will be their equivalent of open water -- I just can't see having such a small amount of pool time.

You are assuming that "academic setting" means a "scuba class" like the one you are describing. That is not what I mean. Can you think of any other university program that might be able to use a more "robust " (god, I hate that word) diving program as part of it's requirement that produces more skilled divers with significantly better than average skill levels? (Hint: Ask Thalass)

 

[Divin'Papaw]

Just for some perspective on the dive training costs in my local market.

OW costs:

$195 - This includes reg, bcd, tank, weight rentals, class room (3 x 3 - 4 hour sessions), pool (minimum of 2 x 4 hour sessions), PADI certification fees
$50 - PADI OW crew pack
$250 - $450 - mask, snorkel, fins, booties, weight belt, and gear bag
$125 - OW weekend - This includes two tanks, bcd, reg, wetsuit, weight rentals. Minimum of 4 people before we go to OW.
$55 - hotel costs
$80 - gas costs for travel (Assuming 20mpg round trip)
$30 - food costs
$10 - 2 x air fill at location
$8 - dive site entrance fee

AOW Costs:

$225 - This includes gear rentals, pool, OW weekend (assuming minimum of 4 people), and PADI cerfication costs
$55 - hotel costs
$80 - gas costs for travel (Assuming 20mpg round trip)
$30 - food costs
$10 - 2 x air fill at location
$8 - dive site entrance fee

Nitrox costs:

$125 - course cost
$50 - crew pack costs

Rescue costs:

$225 - includes gear rental, pool, class room
$50 - crew pack costs
$10 - gas costs

Grand Total: $1661 - $1861

I imagine, if you had a local instructor, that the GUE course costs would be similar and maybe a little cheaper if you took the GUE OW class.

And some Joe Schmoe who's never taken a breath of compressed air in their life is going to go this route? Commit this kind of time and money without even knowing that they like it? As solid as this program would be, that to me is a key downside. It requires someone to almost be able to see in the future, know that they like it, know that they'll want to do it alot, know that they'll want a unified team approach and have the time/money to commit to it in one huge step. It's just don't see how it's a practical approach.

 

[SparticleBrane]

I just can't fathom why they'd want to bother with OW training. It's not until after OW training that folks really begin to get an idea of what they want out of their diving. The unique approach that GUE offers doesn't really come into play for almost everyone until that point.

Simple -- the Law of Primacy.
Trying to get someone to break bad habits is usually much harder than starting with a clean slate.

Besides, the scuba industry is constantly whining about how they're slowly going downhill and they need to certify more divers. This is WRONG. They need to raise standards and certify people who will be life-long divers.

I don't know about you guys, but I don't see how most people just out of a dive shop class have any fun diving. Up down up down up down, they silt themselves out so they can't see, their instructors don't pay attention...I've seen it all. Diving is much more fun when you're in control of your buoyancy and trim and can dive without silting everything out and you are in control of yourself.

Most people who take an OW class never dive again, or quit diving with a year or so. It's a well-known fact. I bet that a decent bit of this is because they didn't find it to be as fun as they thought it would -- their ears hurt afterwards, they didn't feel in control of themselves in the water, and they silted it all out. If we could teach OW divers good buoyancy, trim, situational awareness, and kicks from the beginning I bet we'd see larger numbers of people sticking with the sport for the long term, which is what the dive industry needs if it's going to survive -- not $99 weekend classes to sell these people $2,500 worth of gear and have them quit diving within 6 months.