GUE Open Water class documentary

[Ayisha]

Wow, it's amazing what progression can be made in 10 intensive days. Thanks for posting.

 

[oldogre]

Very interesting video, one has to think of it as 50 dives with intensive instruction and video, rather than an "Introduction to Diving" Course, and judge it accordingly. (For many reasons I would not have done it.)

 

[DiverLaura]

I believe the GUE Rec 1 class has great potential. it is very reminiscent of a class we taught back in early 90's called the "northwest diver program", which was NAUI OW1 and OW2 combined.

At the end of it you had easily 20-25 dives in varied conditions, night, deeper to 80', boat, some navigation, some lift bag work, some rescue, etc.. etc... I believe we covered bit more diversity in total experience, but we also stretched it over 6 weeks, the first 4 being basic open water (including drysuit), the last 2 being 'advanced' (including nitrox).

What we noted even more important than 'how the divers looked', was retention... Having an upsell option that encourages folks to take a more thorough class is good for not only the students, but the industry on a whole. We noted that the divers who completed the NW Diver program actually continued to dive AND instead of just buying "snorkeling gear" they would often purchase a whole kit (and usually a higher end system) including drysuit when class was over.

I think we listed it for $675, and we filled more of those classes than straight OW1 (which we called 'Tropical diver program') we had a 3:1 student to instructor ratio, with a maximum of 6 students (two instructors), along with AI's to help herd kittens and/or be buddied up with the students who needed a bit 'more'

In my experience, people will pay 6-800 bucks for such a class once they understand the difference... you just have to give them the option, and not have your shop monkeys pushing the $99 2 week special.

We were happy to sign people up for the 'tropical diver' program, but would always make sure they knew the value add of the 'second half' of class. Usually after the 2 or 3rd classroom session, folks would upgrade if they upgraded before the first half of class was over (the OW1 segment) we'd throw in the boat dives for 'free'. We also always referred to the program as having a first half and second half (if the person planned to dive out here in the northwest), simply to encourage folks to think of the basic OW class as a learners permit. (much easier to do before NAUI changed their naming format from OW1/OW2 - which implies two parts of something, to Scuba Diver and Advanced Scuba Diver)

in any event, it makes me very very happy to see GUE building a comprehensive OW class... The book "Beginning with the end in mind" is simply amazing as well. It is far more than a basic OW class book or GUE propaganda, its a massive 500 page reference guide... beautifully done, something i highly recommend to ALL divers no matter what denomination you practice

 

[RonFrank]

Seems like a great course. Definitely for someone who is committed. It may be difficult to find new divers willing to commit at this level. 10 days of dedicated diving for someone who has never dove. Keep in mind folks in the UK often get 6 weeks+ of vacation. In the US we don't see half that time off.

I don't see this as a $1000 course, likely closer to $2k when factoring in lodging and travel, heck maybe even $2500. I have no idea if these divers purchased their gear, or rented, but 10 day gear rental with a drysuit would run $500+ at most US resorts.

I liked the concept but think this may not be practical for most new divers.

 

[amascuba]

With a comment like that, its obvious that you didnt watch the entire video. Otherwise you would have noticed the very confident, competent, and comfortable group of student divers who obviously enjoyed themselves and the class. Sounds more like you're being negative for the sake of being negative.

Well having watched it, I have to say I am far less eager to take a GUE course. An instructor who puts his back to the sun when teaching on the surface simply is not aware enough to be a good instructor of anything, because he is thinking of all the important things he has to say, and completely forgetting about the students.

And that seems to be how he built the course: He has important things to say, and that's all that matters, dammit. And frankly it shows; his divers look uncomfortable, and jerky all the time, right to the end. The only difference between the Bad divers in the typical OW at the beginning and his divers at the end is that the discomfort is happening at a different place in the water column.

 

[RonFrank]

Well having watched it, I have to say I am far less eager to take a GUE course. An instructor who puts his back to the sun when teaching on the surface simply is not aware enough to be a good instructor of anything, because he is thinking of all the important things he has to say, and completely forgetting about the students.

And that seems to be how he built the course: He has important things to say, and that's all that matters, dammit. And frankly it shows; his divers look uncomfortable, and jerky all the time, right to the end. The only difference between the Bad divers in the typical OW at the beginning and his divers at the end is that the discomfort is happening at a different place in the water column.

I have no idea what video you were watching. The video I saw showed some very competent divers. Granted they had likely 40 dives in 10 days, and that is a bunch. So this is showing what is possible given 10 days of intense study and diving drills. You can not begin to compare this to a typical OW class. More like OW+AOW+Rescue+Fundies.

 

[DiverLaura]

It is my understanding that the GUE Rec. 1 could be taught in different formats, in same way other GUE classes can. I don't believe that a 10 day marathon would be the 'norm'.

The way i envision the class is similar to old skool OW Classes, taught by your local GUE instructor, just with more time in the pool and classroom (say 2-3 days a week after work for 3-4 weeks) followed by check out dives, then some more theory (another couple evenings in classroom?) then loads and loads of OW dives on weekends and occasional evening if more dives or theory is deemed necessary.

The neat thing you get out of this format in addition to more education is a team of dive buddies and camaraderie...

People finish their 2 week, 1 weekend OW class pretty much unprepared for what the big wide UW world has to offer, without any real buddies or any real regular 'crew' to dive with.

With this longer more in depth format, not only do you get your classmates who are now solid divers, but you get picked up by the larger community in a reasonably seamless fashion. You are more prepared to do real dives so you are immediately seen as a good potential buddy from a skills and knowledge base standpoint. Yes, we will still see you as a 'noob' and probably pair you with one of the more experienced team members, but your chances of getting people to hook up with for a dive post class are going to be much higher (in my opinion).

Your 'window' of opportunity in the diving world is almost automatically opened wider.

 

[VooDooGasMan]

Laura that has worked for years in the great lakes, for one there not that easy of diving and takes time and so like you just posted more time together makes stronger divers and a group to dive with.

 

[TSandM]

I'm actually not certain that the class at this moment is the class shown in the documentary. I do believe that, after some experience with it, they may have shortened and streamlined it a bit. And I'm sure the reason it was taught as a ten-day marathon is because the three students were all from elsewhere. GUE instructors teaching in their home waters would, I suspect, try to break it up a bit to allow students some respite and rest. I know I sure would in Puget Sound. As I told one of our AOW students the other day, three days in a row of shore diving here wears ME out, and I'm used to the gear and I'm diving dry. Asking OW students to do ten days in a row in our cold water, especially in wetsuits, would be a way, I think, to ensure nobody would ever successfully complete the class.

 

[beanojones]

Beano, thank you for your comment about the position of the sun. It would never occur to me to worry about it . . . of course, we rarely squint in the Pacific Northwest.

But I'm intrigued with your criticism of the divers as "jerky". At the end, I do see the occasional brief balance loss, but overall, they appear very fluid to me. Do you have any video of your students at the same stage of development (end of AOW, say) to show me what you would like to see in preference?

There were a couple of WTF moments like having students facing the sun, but as another example in that same scece he had them in the water with no masks and unprotected airways, which is just simply inappropriate dive behavior in any conditions. It's easy for it to not cause problems in the pool like conditions that video was shot in, but it is downright dangerous pretty much anytime in my part of the Pacific, as I am sure it is in your part of the Pacific. If these were decisions made for video impact, then the instructor was reinforcing bad dive behavior (and bad instructor behavior) for the purposes of shooting good video. Again, the instructor was prioritizing his needs over the students.

As far as the student's comfort level:
The students looked and sounded like they had just barely survived the training, and had no particular confidence or comfort. Dive training is about moving students to a sense of qualified capability. Of course they do not think they can do it at first, but we walk them step by step to being able to do it.

That course seems to care more about where the diver is in the water column instead of where the students are comfort-wise. Quite simply, operational long-term neutral buoyancy is impossible when students are carrying a significant stress level because they are breathing "off the top", and thus have to be overballasted to compensate, which of course means they were doing their training dives overweighted. At whatever point after the class they end up relaxing, they are going to have to either reconfigure their ballast, or just end up diving while breathing off the top for to compensate.

But the simple physiological fact is that it is next to impossible to relax with nearly full lungs. Students who are not relaxed are simply not able to move practiced behaviors into long term memory or muscle memory. A diver diving with full lungs are never going to reach the level of comfort of those who have to exhale completely to descend.

I don't shoot video anymore, so all I can tell you is that my AOW students who come from my OW course, either directly or with intervening dive experience, have to be taught how to come to rest on the ocean bottom for whatever operational needs in the AOW course (manipulating an object stuck in the bottom, getting low enough to spot a fish/shrimp symbiotic hole). The first time I saw one of my former OW having trouble with the concept of resting on the bottom, I realized that the student simply had never come to rest on the bottom to that point in their diving career, ever. I got a chuckle out of it, because kneeling is usually the first 'skill' most OW students 'learn'. The other AOW students whose OW I did not do always tend to start at the bottom, as in come to rest then add air to their BCD to get neutral or whatever. First learned, best learned as the saying goes.

As I noted other places, I believe strongly in the all skills done neutrally buoyant, either stationary, or preferably on the move. A PADI course taught that way (if the instructor makes the students actually meet the performance requirements like hovering, and weighting for neutral buoyancy) turns out divers with the same ability to maintain their level and trim in the water column. By the end of (at least my) OW course moving (and hovering) in good trim should simply be the only way a diver thinks diving is done. They maintain that position not because I say it is important, but because that it all they know: Diving is neutrally buoyant. And neutrally buoyant requires horizontal trim or they end up at the surface.

As noted, in one way of thinking/teaching, by the end of CW, divers should have spent (at least) several hours practicing fin pivot or hovering. Inhaling and exhaling to adjust height in the water column comes naturally if all the skills other than the intro skills are done horizontally or on the move, at neutral buoyancy. Having a student do a mask R/R and having them end up at the surface because they have nearly full lungs teaches the student more about the importance of fully exhaling before doing a skill (and thus relaxing before doing the skill) than any amount of me telling them about the importance of relaxing can. That lesson thus really never needs to be 'taught', rather students are simply put in a position where they themselves discover it. The same goes with random hand motions and trim. Truly neutrally buoyant divers will propel themselves to the surface with essential any arm swinging (since arms move mostly only in front, thus below, a horizontal diver, pushing them up). An the same goes for horizontal trim. Make a diver buoyant, and when s/he ends up at the surface from kicking in bad trim position, they quickly learn to how to get, and how to stay, horizontal. After they end up at the surface from those factors, telling them why, if they have not already figured it out by themselves, makes it so they police their own arm movements and trim because they don't want to end up at the surface. Require neutral buoyancy at all times, and reuqire random hovering to double-check it at any point during any dive, and the rest is largely self taught.

Again as noted in other places, I think scuba instructors tend to think what they are saying is more important than what a student is learning. This video is full of a lot of talk, and a lot of that exact attitude. Anyone can learn to dive without any instructor present given enough time. It is, after all, how everyone used to learn how to dive. Our goal, as instructors, is to accelerate their learning, not extend it. After 40 dives, anyone is a pretty good diver unless they are simply bound and determined not to learn anything from their experience, or it they have a really bad foundation from which learning is hard, which, granted, many students have. But that has to do with divers training on their knees, overweighted, not with GUE vs. PADI/NAUI/Etc.

While the GUE course seems to offer a good foundation, it is not very efficiently reached, and I am not sure if divers carrying that level of stress in training will be retaining knowledge or even continuing diving.