GUE Fundamentals w/Bob Sherwood Course Report

[Cyprian]

Where you need to be to take Fundies depends on what you want out of the class.

I try to talk people into taking it in a single tank for a rec pass. To do that, all you really need is the required equipment, and enough comfort with it to be able to hover and do the basic 5 without sculling or losing buoyancy. If you MUST pass, you also need to be able to control descents and ascents so that you can stop where you want, for as long as you want. Once you have a rec pass, if you decide in the future that you want to do technical training with the agency, you can upgrade to a tech pass at any time, although it may require bringing an instructor in or going to one, if there isn't one local to you.

If you are doing the class simply to get clearance to get into GUE technical training, it's a whole different kettle of fish, especially if you cannot easily manage a reevaluation. But I think people are a lot better off taking the class earlier, and starting to build good habits from the beginning.

Lynne,

I understand where you are coming from and would take the class sooner if I didn't have a GUE mentor in the area...luckily I do. I also have 50Phantom and Lone Star Underwater Explorers only 4 hours away to aid in the process.

My original intent was to take GUE Primer and Doubles before Fundies, and that is still a possibility; however, I'm learning quite a bit from my mentor.

I do plan to take Fundies in doubles and shoot for a tech pass. Do I realize that the number that initially get the tech pass is low? Absolutely, and I won't be ashamed or disheartened if I only get a rec pass, or a provisional.

That said, my strategy is simple. Being right in the middle here in TX, we have no GUE instructors around us to speak of. Bring one to TX? Again a possibility, but I'd rather take the class in clear water instead of our low vis lakes to avoid adding another "stressor" to the mix. Since the general consensus around our group is to head to High Springs, I decided that I might as well shoot for the tech pass. Another reason is vacation time for my teammates. While I am lucky enough to schedule 4 days whenever I really want to, my teammates have already scheduled a lot of their time for the year. I'm certainly not going to stand in the way of a family vacation to take a GUE class.

In a nutshell, if we are going to High Springs....we are going in doubles and shoot for the tech pass. We are lucky enough to have a GUE mentor with us now (who is also a PADI MSDT) to point out our mistakes and guide us along the way.

Safe dives,

Cyp

 

[elan]

Cyprian,

Having a mentor is a nice thing but unless he is also a GUE instructor it cannot replace that I learned it myself that mentor is good but it cannot replace the instructor, and oftentimes they might not catch issues which will have bad habits settled down and they can get in the way later. I had to re-learn my frog kick and helicopter turn in my class as I was not tough properly by the mentors.

I have noticed a bid difference between taking my Fundies and DPV class, the difference was that I was not experienced with DPVs and had nothing to unlearn, the class was more fun and easy. After the class I have realized that the way my DPV mentors were teaching me is not how it is in fact tought in the class.


Another thing is it is a good idea to take the class in the environment you are going to dive in. GUE has some per-requisites regarding the minimum vis, if your environment satisfies it I would do it locally. The goal of the class is to learn the skills in the target environment

 

[Cyprian]

Cyprian,

Having a mentor is a nice thing but unless he is also a GUE instructor it cannot replace that I learned it myself that mentor is good but it cannot replace the instructor, and oftentimes they might not catch issues which will have bad habits settled down and they can get in the way later. I had to re-learn my frog kick and helicopter turn in my class as I was not tough properly by the mentors.

I have noticed a bid difference between taking my Fundies and DPV class, the difference was that I was not experienced with DPVs and had nothing to unlearn, the class was more fun and easy. After the class I have realized that the way my DPV mentors were teaching me is not how it is in fact tought in the class.


Another thing is it is a good idea to take the class in the environment you are going to dive in. GUE has some per-requisites regarding the minimum vis, if your environment satisfies it I would do it locally. The goal of the class is to learn the skills in the target environment

Elan,

Again, good points all the way around.

My mention of possibly taking GUE Primer as well as doubles ties in with what you are saying. My only problem with that is scheduling with my teammates. I really want to take core classes with teammates. I have, however, contacted Doug Mudry about private coaching classes as well and have that as an option.

As relates to the dive in your environment idea: I understand that point as well, but my target dives are caves and wrecks. I bought into the GUE system for the simple fact, as Lynne as often alluded to, that it is a tried and true system and a very safe system. At the same time my actual goal is to move on to Cave 1 and Tech 1, and eventually Cave 2 and Tech 2. When I dive the local lakes and scuba parks, it is primarily for training purposes.

One more point: Our local dive park can get 10-15' vis quite often. Would I have a problem taking the class in that vis? Not at all. However, I have seen that very place, and the other lakes around drop to about 2-3' of vis. Taking a class in that low of vis is not only hard on the student, but on the instructor. How can s/he tell how your fin kicks are if they can't even see your fins? Or, if they can see you fins, but cannot see your legs.....how can they tell what you are doing right or wrong?

I don't want to bring a GUE instructor here, pay all the expenses and then not be able to dive due to the poor visibility. Why not just go where you know there will be vis, or at least have the option of multiple sites that will have good vis?

 

[TSandM]

You know, the question of whether one should train in the environment where one dives, or reduce environmental stress to aid learning new skills, and then bring them back to local waters, can be argued ad infinitum. There are good points on both sides, and sometimes logistics may be the deciding factor. There is a HUGE benefit to doing these classes with a team of known divers who can and have practiced together and will continue to do so. And yes, one of the biggest benefits of the system is that we're all interchangeable -- but not so much, when you are trying to learn the skills for the first time.

For myself, after quite a few classes, I have come to the conclusion that optimizing the circumstances for learning is the best way to learn. If that means better water conditions, or known buddies, or doing the class somewhere where you aren't spending an hour a day driving back and forth to fill tanks -- whatever makes it easier. After spending ten days with two T1 classes on a liveaboard in the Red Sea, I'd sure try to do that if I had T1 in my sights!

As I said, what you do with the classes depends on your end goals AND your logistics. If you want to do tech training with GUE and you have no local instructor, you really need that tech pass the first time through, and that takes a WHOLE lot of preparation. If you're lucky, like the Seattle folks are, and you have a local instructor and a huge mentoring community, you're much better off taking Fundies early and building your skills, because reevaluating or upgrading your pass is easy to do.

 

[sotgecho]

Cyp,

Coming to Florida my not be such a bad option for your team dependent on the size of your team.

I took my class this past February in Gainesville with David Rhea and Errol Kalayci; granted I live in Jupiter and it is only a few hour drive for me to cave county. However, being able to take a class in gin clear spring water can help put yourself at ease. I had the option to do it closer to me but in an ocean environment which I am used to. However, I opted to take it in cave county because of the consistent conditions in the springs. Water temp, visibility were the same each day and made training that much easier.

Logistics here in Florida can be done with time and careful planning. I took my class with someone coming from Colombia who spoke English as a second language it was a little bit of a hurdle but it can be done.

Also, if you are interested in just doing a doubles primer I am planning on doing one with Doug in the next few months so if you are interested we can talk.

 

[elan]

You know, the question of whether one should train in the environment where one dives, or reduce environmental stress to aid learning new skills, and then bring them back to local waters, can be argued ad infinitum. There are good points on both sides, and sometimes logistics may be the deciding factor. There is a HUGE benefit to doing these classes with a team of known divers who can and have practiced together and will continue to do so. And yes, one of the biggest benefits of the system is that we're all interchangeable -- but not so much, when you are trying to learn the skills for the first time.

Re the environment I would agree for the classes of a level higher than Fundamentals, but Fundametals are just that, it's the base so one have to have the base skill of buoyancy and trim nailed down in the local environment, valve drills and S-drills, bolt snap clipping off with dry gloves (for cold environment) etc. So wherever I look in the fundamentals that's the base that is to be tailored to
the environment... So if say a cold water diver takes the class down south they would have hard time doing fundamental skills in the local cold water environment

OTOH AFAIK one cannot teach the course in 2-3 ft vis per the standard, so that could be a deciding factor.

 

[TSandM]

I think it's true that someone who took Fundies in a 3 mil wetsuit, no gloves, and 50 feet of viz, is going to struggle a fair bit to perform any of those skills as well here in Puget Sound. But they WILL know what it feels like to get it right, and what the bar is; they WILL have been taught the correct mechanics and thought process. I suspect that such a person would get up to speed in the Sound fairly quickly, especially with a little help.

On the other hand, since there is nothing in Fundies (except for the bag shoot) that you didn't learn in open water (yes, the air sharing procedure may be different, but you DID learn air-sharing), you should be able to get through Fundies in local water, if the instructor can see the students. Last week, here, that wasn't true . . .

 

[HenrikBP]

After spending ten days with two T1 classes on a liveaboard in the Red Sea, I'd sure try to do that if I had T1 in my sights!

Wow - I'd be up for that ...

 

[Cyprian]

Cyp,

......if you are interested in just doing a doubles primer I am planning on doing one with Doug in the next few months so if you are interested we can talk.

You have my interest, sir.

I'll PM you a little later tonight, after I get rid of this annoying problem called work.

 

[50Fathom]

If you're lucky, like the Seattle folks are, and you have a local instructor and a huge mentoring community, you're much better off taking Fundies early and building your skills, because reevaluating or upgrading your pass is easy to do.

I REALLY think that divers with a solid GUE community, made up of -2 level divers and with instructors thrown in the mix truly have no idea how lucky they are. Seattle, California, NE, Florida, etc.

We met a fellow here that was from southern California and was traveling through. He said his USUAL dive buddies are a Tech 1 instructor and a Fundies instructor. Imagine being able to dive with that caliber of diver day-in/day-out. Even when not training, the amount of skill, precision and finesse that you can just "osmosis" from diving with them must be incredible.

If I want to dive with that kind of diver, and/or get mentored/trained, I have to spend big bucks to fly someone in, or go to them. In the intervening months, I'm left sucking hind tit regarding my development. I have no local mentor/sensei and most of the time, to quote Leslie Nielsen in The Naked Gun: "like a blind man at an orgy, I'm gonna have to feel my way through."

It sucks.