Just trying to bring my perspective into this. I've seen it where the big high 5 from a GUE guy isn't all it is cracked up to be.
GUE-F Tech Pass
- Thread starter MBH
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You don't know stung until you hear the warning bells, don't say anything and someone dies when you could see it coming.
I vowed to never do that again. For people that I give half a crap about I won't remain silent. What they do with my opinion is up to them. After all we're all adults.
Lynne,
I also took fundies with Steve. Anyone that has taken a class with him knows he would not have given you the pass if you did not deserve it.
I think very few of us went through fundies and didn't struggle with something. For me it was mask removal and replace. Not that I am uncomfortable with having my mask off, but I wanted to do it with my eyes closed to simulate a true no-viz situation. Maintaining my buoyancy with no visual reference was and still is is hard for me. Because of that I barely got a rec pass. Had I done it with eyes open, I still would not have been anywhere close to earning a tech pass.
I can appreciate the concern in posts above, but I think it's very difficult to judge someones diving ability based on a few sentences on a mail board. I say ignore it. You and the people with whom you choose to dive are more than capable of deciding what kind of dives you are ready for. I highly doubt that you, of all people, are going to dive outside of your ability.
Congrats on the pass and keep up the good work.
Hunter
I also took fundies with Steve. Anyone that has taken a class with him knows he would not have given you the pass if you did not deserve it.
I think very few of us went through fundies and didn't struggle with something. For me it was mask removal and replace. Not that I am uncomfortable with having my mask off, but I wanted to do it with my eyes closed to simulate a true no-viz situation. Maintaining my buoyancy with no visual reference was and still is is hard for me. Because of that I barely got a rec pass. Had I done it with eyes open, I still would not have been anywhere close to earning a tech pass.
I can appreciate the concern in posts above, but I think it's very difficult to judge someones diving ability based on a few sentences on a mail board. I say ignore it. You and the people with whom you choose to dive are more than capable of deciding what kind of dives you are ready for. I highly doubt that you, of all people, are going to dive outside of your ability.
Congrats on the pass and keep up the good work.
Hunter
First off, Congratulations Lynn. Way to go with the perseverance.
Second, after reading several of the last posts, I wanted to chime in with a couple of thoughts. I could see how Brian's comments could be taken the wrong way, but one of the things I respected about the GUE model (and other instruction that follows it) is that there is no sugar coating on the results. I think we have become too used to looking at diving from a "everybody be happy and everybody passes" type of approach. When is the last time you are aware of a student failing a PADI course or pretty much any other dive agency? For Tech, it is a refreshing to change to have somebody call it like it is. Sometimes this ruffles feathers, but we aren't talking about 40' warm water reef dives here. If you get a tech pass, you should have a good chance of passing the Tech I course. Not guaranteed, but a good chance. GUE tech training starts with Fundamentals if you chose to try for a Tech pass. Thus, the "tech" mindset starts with those first fundamentals dives. That being said, good Tech divers are made, not born. If it took 2 years and you did master the skills required, good on ya'. That is a lot of work and dedication. My first tech class went pretty good until the first cold water "experience" dive, which didn't go that well at all
. That dive served as a wake up call to take this stuff a lot more serious and things have proceeded well from there.
I guess what I am trying to say, is that I personally value a "no sh-t" opinion from someone who was not interested in blowing sunshine up my rear than hearing what I wanted to hear. As far as the skills stuff goes, it is what it is, and when Brian says "we are all adults" I would take that one step forward and say that this sport is an adult sport and particularly for tech (and cave is tech) we need to remove our emotions and feelings from any analysis of our abilities. As an advocate of DIR, I know you understand the importance of the team approach to diving. I would suggest that you look at Brian's comments from that perspective and see that he is evaluating you as a potential team member. I personally reserve the right to evaluate every person I dive with, just as they have the right to evaluate me, regardless of whether our feelings are hurt in that evaluation. I personally operate well in an environment where my performance is graded on a "no sh-t" basis and if I screw up, I really hear about it. I am sure this is partially because of my military training back ground where this is de rigour. That being said, not everybody reacts well to this type of approach (I know my wife doesn't, especially from me)
When we enter into a GUE course we know that standards are going to be impartially applied and I believe that is why so many of us respect the training. The feeling of accomplishment in that type of learning environment is well worth it. I don't think this matters whether the class took 4 days or 2 years. Enjoy the feeling of accomplishment and welcome to the club!!
Second, after reading several of the last posts, I wanted to chime in with a couple of thoughts. I could see how Brian's comments could be taken the wrong way, but one of the things I respected about the GUE model (and other instruction that follows it) is that there is no sugar coating on the results. I think we have become too used to looking at diving from a "everybody be happy and everybody passes" type of approach. When is the last time you are aware of a student failing a PADI course or pretty much any other dive agency? For Tech, it is a refreshing to change to have somebody call it like it is. Sometimes this ruffles feathers, but we aren't talking about 40' warm water reef dives here. If you get a tech pass, you should have a good chance of passing the Tech I course. Not guaranteed, but a good chance. GUE tech training starts with Fundamentals if you chose to try for a Tech pass. Thus, the "tech" mindset starts with those first fundamentals dives. That being said, good Tech divers are made, not born. If it took 2 years and you did master the skills required, good on ya'. That is a lot of work and dedication. My first tech class went pretty good until the first cold water "experience" dive, which didn't go that well at all
. That dive served as a wake up call to take this stuff a lot more serious and things have proceeded well from there. I guess what I am trying to say, is that I personally value a "no sh-t" opinion from someone who was not interested in blowing sunshine up my rear than hearing what I wanted to hear. As far as the skills stuff goes, it is what it is, and when Brian says "we are all adults" I would take that one step forward and say that this sport is an adult sport and particularly for tech (and cave is tech) we need to remove our emotions and feelings from any analysis of our abilities. As an advocate of DIR, I know you understand the importance of the team approach to diving. I would suggest that you look at Brian's comments from that perspective and see that he is evaluating you as a potential team member. I personally reserve the right to evaluate every person I dive with, just as they have the right to evaluate me, regardless of whether our feelings are hurt in that evaluation. I personally operate well in an environment where my performance is graded on a "no sh-t" basis and if I screw up, I really hear about it. I am sure this is partially because of my military training back ground where this is de rigour. That being said, not everybody reacts well to this type of approach (I know my wife doesn't, especially from me
) When we enter into a GUE course we know that standards are going to be impartially applied and I believe that is why so many of us respect the training. The feeling of accomplishment in that type of learning environment is well worth it. I don't think this matters whether the class took 4 days or 2 years. Enjoy the feeling of accomplishment and welcome to the club!!
Thanks, Bismark.
If I didn't value the high standards I've been held to, as I said, I would have gone elsewhere for training that I didn't have to work so hard for.
I don't imagine Brian would want me on his team for anything more than a simple recreational dive, which is fine -- he shouldn't. I don't ever want to try to do the dives he does. What pleases me is that the cave trained people I know and dive with are coming down to Mexico for my second week there in May, in the full expectation that I will pass Cave 1, and because they are looking forward to diving the caves there with me. That's a vote of confidence from people who have not only seen me dive, but have seen me work on my skills and know what all my difficulties have been.
Brian, I'm very sorry that you had the experience you had. If the person you lost was someone who had barely squeaked by in their classes, I can see how it would leave you with a very bad taste in your mouth for diving with anyone who was marginal in any way. (And when I said I wasn't going to do any tech diving, I meant I wasn't going to pursue any training that will involve me doing prolonged periods or complicated activities in midwater, because that's my weak point. I can DO them, but not reliably within GUE standards.)
If I didn't value the high standards I've been held to, as I said, I would have gone elsewhere for training that I didn't have to work so hard for.
I don't imagine Brian would want me on his team for anything more than a simple recreational dive, which is fine -- he shouldn't. I don't ever want to try to do the dives he does. What pleases me is that the cave trained people I know and dive with are coming down to Mexico for my second week there in May, in the full expectation that I will pass Cave 1, and because they are looking forward to diving the caves there with me. That's a vote of confidence from people who have not only seen me dive, but have seen me work on my skills and know what all my difficulties have been.
Brian, I'm very sorry that you had the experience you had. If the person you lost was someone who had barely squeaked by in their classes, I can see how it would leave you with a very bad taste in your mouth for diving with anyone who was marginal in any way. (And when I said I wasn't going to do any tech diving, I meant I wasn't going to pursue any training that will involve me doing prolonged periods or complicated activities in midwater, because that's my weak point. I can DO them, but not reliably within GUE standards.)
SparticleBrane
Contributor
To Lynne's credit -- I have read and heard about a few GUE instructors who have been a bit...shall we say...overzealous with their standards, especially with the GUE-F class. It would seem they are holding people to ridiculous standards that one might apply to a Tech 2 student, but not to someone in GUE-F.
So have I. It seems some GUE guys (and possibly GUE itself) have lost focus on what DIRF is supposed to be about.
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