Guardian OTS FFM & Airflow

[Robert Stamm]

Does anyone know if there is a way to adjust the 2nd stage regulator on the OTS Guardians?

I love the mask itself, seals great, NEVER fogs, comfortable, etc - two things I dont like
1. the nose piece for equalizing, but I have adjusted
2. the 2nd stage. I feel like I am gasping for air - can barely breathe in the thing and there does not seem to be any way to adjust it for comfort. Unfortunately this is a deal breaker.

I purchased two, one for the wife and I. She wont even use hers, I have had a couple dives however the airflow is so poor that I am gasping for air the entire dive, which cuts my dive time considerably.
I have searched the forums for any adjustments and do not see any posts related.
Its like breathing through a straw....

by the way, I dont think its faulty equipment because my Wife's breathes the same way.

 

[Robert Stamm]

Forgot to mention, I am using a brand new ScubaPro MK25 first stage with the mask.

https://ww2.scubapro.com/en-GB/HKG/regulators/products/mk25-evos600.aspx

 

[rsingler]

ANY scuba regulator can be adjusted.
Your cracking effort is likely set too high. Take your masks to the shop and ask the technician to tune to the low end of the manufacturer's "cracking effort specification" and try it in the shop.
Looking at the schematic, the regulator likely doesn't even need to be removed from the mask, so the retune should take less than 5 minutes.

 

[northernone]

ANY regulator can be adjusted.
Your cracking effort is likely set too high. Take your masks to the shop and ask the technician to tune to the low end of the manufacturer's "cracking effort specification" and try it in the shop.
Looking at the schematic, the regulator likely doesn't even need to be removed from the mask, so the retune should take less than 5 minutes.

I can confirm. They can be adjusted to breathe nicely (as nicely as a FFM breathes) exactly how you describe.


To the OP:
It might be worth having a full face mask instructor (or any experienced ffm diver) test it or you could borrow a properly working ffm so you have something to compare your experience against.

A full face mask does breathe differently and needs some practice to get comfortable with a suitable breathing rythmn.

Cameron

 

[Robert Stamm]

I usually have the regulator pretty loose when i dive. I like easy breathing.
the FFM was, as I said, sucking from a straw. exhausting really.

as far as the adjustment. I am in the bahamas and I dont really have a reputable dive shop around to do any adjustments.
are there any resources online that I can reference to do the adjustments myself?

for the record, I have already looked myself, but found nothing. perhaps I am searching for the wrong things

 

[JackD342]

Maybe before you go much further, check the IP on your 1st stage?
I don't know what IP the mask should be satisfied with, but a quick Google search seems to say your 1st stage is supposed to be at 138 psi. Maybe someone else reading can supply the info on what it should be for use with your mask, and what the range of acceptable adjustment is on your MK25. Might just be a mismatch, and that is certainly the simplest thing to rule out first.

Could try moving the mask to a different 1st stage, too.

 

[Robert Stamm]

first stage should be 133-142, per factory specs. 135 is optimal, per OTS
Prior to purchasing the ScubaPro, i used rental equipment and had the same issue. I think its in the second stage.
I wish there was an option for a FFM that allowed you to use your own second stage, yet still had the benefits of the OTS Guardian. Every hybrid model I have read about seems to have issues with fogging, which the guardian is great at.
its unfortunate the 2nd stage is so ... limited. they could have at least included a flow adjuster.

 

[g1138]

I'm a certified service technician for OTS Guardian masks. You will want to have a tech handle this.
The procedure to fine tune is not like a normal regulator. There are also a couple orings that you can easily crimp if you're not paying attention to orientation when reassembling. That could lead to your mask having water intrusion.

Without going into detail that could giving someone enough knowledge to tinker and get in trouble, adjusting the reg isn't intuitive for someone who hasn't taken the technician course. Not that it's hard to tune, but you need to be familiarized on how the parts work and effect each other when tuning.

You can tune these beautifully FYI and it sounds like yours does need it.
Another consideration is your first stage IP pressure might not be in a correct range to feed the FFM.

 

[Robert Stamm]

I'm a certified service technician for OTS Guardian masks. You will want to have a tech handle this.
The procedure to fine tune is not like a normal regulator. There are also a couple orings that you can easily crimp if you're not paying attention to orientation when reassembling. That could lead to your mask having water intrusion.

Without going into detail that could giving someone enough knowledge to tinker and get in trouble, adjusting the reg isn't intuitive for someone who hasn't taken the technician course. Not that it's hard to tune, but you need to be familiarized on how the parts work and effect each other when tuning.

You can tune these beautifully FYI and it sounds like yours does need it.
Another consideration is your first stage IP pressure might not be in a correct range to feed the FFM.

Appreciate the feedback.
Gotta admit that its a little disappointing to hear that both of my brand new masks need tuned by a technician, given the price we paid. I guess my expectation is that they would be ready to go. I dont know of any qualified technicians that could adjust these masks in the Bahamas. It might make more sense to bail on these and try a different model.
Have you had much experience with the OTS Spectrum? I have read mixed reviews, some saying that fogging is an issue.
I like that you use your own 2nd stage, as the ScubaPro s600 I have is really nice.

 

[g1138]

Appreciate the feedback.
Gotta admit that its a little disappointing to hear that both of my brand new masks need tuned by a technician, given the price we paid. I guess my expectation is that they would be ready to go. I dont know of any qualified technicians that could adjust these masks in the Bahamas. It might make more sense to bail on these and try a different model.
Have you had much experience with the OTS Spectrum? I have read mixed reviews, some saying that fogging is an issue.
I like that you use your own 2nd stage, as the ScubaPro s600 I have is really nice.

The best thing to do right now is one of 2 options:
A) rent normal scuba
B) Have a scubapro tech adjust your mk25 to a 150psi IP. That should lower your cracking pressure a tiny bit on the FFM without having to adjust it. I believe the mk25 should be at 135psi IP out of box.

Either way also send a very cordial (respectful) email to OTS and give a report of your issue and I would also suggest asking if they would cover a tune up via warranty. I fully agree with your disappointment but cordial usually gets you more barter power.
Keep in mind you also get 1st annual service under warranty, but I would specify that that tune-up is not the 1st annual service warranty you're looking to use.

I have 22 Guardians and 7 Stealths in service at my work place and all were well within breathable out of the box, most very great. Last mask we bought was 2 years ago though. Sometimes final Quality Control can have a bad day and be a bit tight on the tuning, but they should be bench checking it before boxing. Every mfg has had issues with this over their history. That's partly why it's always recommended to at least check your new gear on a tank, if not in a pool or at least local before your trip.

So I'm a bit surprised, but without benching your mask and reg I can't be able to tell if your 2 masks are tuned bad or if your 1st stage is set too low on the IP.

The Specturm takes your standard reg. So think of the Spectrum as a replacement mouthpiece. It is not a true FFM. You'll need to spit and shine it before every dive to keep it from fogging. It does not pull air over the lens like the Guardian, so you do not have natural defog going per every breath. It is meant as a cheap alternative to the FFM market. I would keep your Guardian and check it with a tech.