Green PSI VIP Sticker

[bkbomb123]

Is anyone familar with PSI Vip green color stickers? I have 2 steel tanks with a green PSI stickers, and never had a problem with partial fills. I just went to a new store for a hydro and vip, when they retured an enriched air sticker was on them with the shop's name. I asked for an O2 clean sticker, He refused to put an O2 clean sticker on unless I had an O2 clean report. These tanks are 15 years old an were O2 cleaned 6 years ago by Dixie Divers with their name on an O2 cleaned sticker, that shop went out of bussiness 4 years ago. The way I read PSI spec's is if you have a tank O2 cleaned by a PSI inspector an O2 report is issued.

Now I can't get a partial fill on there tanks, only membrane fills. What's the real story?


Pissed

 

[grf88]

If they were O2 cleaned 6 years ago then they would of either needed or had a hydro since then which would have contaminated the tanks even if nothing else had. O2 cleaning is not something that only has to be done once and forgotten. The green PSI sticker is only valid for one year. If you want a new O2 sticker then you will need to get them cleaned.

 

[Scared Silly]

I guess I am not understanding you complaint. Have you ever seen the water used for hydro? It ain't clean, let alone O2 clean. O2 cleaning is not forever let alone 5 years. It is all dependent on how the cylinder was filled. Who did the VIP in the past years since it was O2 cleaned? Did they give a report with notations about the inspection for O2 contaminants?

 

[Liquid Pleasure]

Two choices. Take the PSI O2 Clean & VIP class. Clean/inspect the tank and put your own sticker on the tank. Or, pay someone to O2 Clean the tank. Preferably you go back to the same shop who Hydro’d/Vip’d the tank so you can get a break on the new sticker. If you plead your case they might just charge you for the O2 cleaning.

 

[Topbodz]

I had a guy bring two tanks for hydro/vip a while back and it had that PSI green sticker (I think PSI strickers are the crudest looking stickers I've ever seen) Anyway the sticker did NOT indicate in any way that the tanks had been cleaned for o2 service. He thought they were o2 cleaned because the sticker was green.... I offered to clean the tanks or put a Pre-mix sticker on. He opted for the latter. This just happened again a few days ago (in fact the tank is still at the hydro shop) where the diver tells me that the tank has been o2 cleaned, but there is no o2 service sticker (or any vip sticker) on the tank. Only an old "Enriched Air" band... So I'm cleaning the valve & tank so he can get an o2 cleaned sticker....

 

[bkbomb123]

A partial pressure fill is when your tanks are filled partially with O2 to a predetermined psi depending on the mix requested, then air is added for the finale mix. Membrane fills are a premix gas, usually 32% or 36% that is banked.

If your tanks are O2 cleaned and you frequent a reputable shop that uses O2 and quality air for a partial pressure fill your tanks are never contamined.

As far as a hydro test the water used comes from a hose then pressurized air is blow in. There are no hydrocarbons in water.

What seems to be the problem is some shops are not educated on PSI stickers. PSI does not make O2 clean stickers. The green sticker reads" SUITABLE FOR ENRICHED AIR" and has a record stating they were O2 cleaned by PSI. Anyway, if your tanks were previously O2 cleaned by another shop with their sticker, a year later same tanks are then taken to a PSI certified guy, he takes your O2 sticker off and puts a green psi sticker on. I have never had a problem getting my stages filled with 100% O2 with a green sticker. so it boils down to new shops that are not educated in PSI. Don't use a shop that will not put a PSI or an O2 sticker back on. Thanks for the help an opinions, but the question may be on the wrong forun. I could be wrong but judgeing from Topadz replie I don't think he is PSI certified. Hope I comunicated this correctly. I just thought thought some one really knows what
the story is.

 

[fdog]

<snip>

If your tanks are O2 cleaned and you frequent a reputable shop that uses O2 and quality air for a partial pressure fill your tanks are never contamined.

<snip>

My experience tells me this is a very dangerous assumption. All it takes is one breakthrough incident. Or someone with greasy hands changing the fill whips (or) the whips on the T's of O2.

<snip>

Anyway, if your tanks were previously O2 cleaned by another shop with their sticker, a year later same tanks are then taken to a PSI certified guy, he takes your O2 sticker off and puts a green psi sticker on.

<snip>

If I put an O2 clean sticker on a cylinder, it means I actually O2 cleaned it, and I'm not taking it on faith that it's still clean enough to flow 100% O2 into.


This whole conversation disturbs me greatly. It has the ring of deliberately circumventing what little safeguards we have to make PP blending safe from an oxygen fire, just so someone isn't inconvenienced with a pesky annual oxygen cleaning.

If that's not the case, and it's simply a case of not having the knowledge of oxygen fill procedures, then please accept both my apologies, and the recommendation of reading the Oxygen Hacker's Companion.


All the best, James

 

[bkbomb123]

<snip>My experience tells me this is a very dangerous assumption. All it takes is one breakthrough incident. Or someone with greasy hands changing the fill whips (or) the whips on the T's of O2.

James, if that were true you would would have to have your tanks O2 cleaned after every fill. Anything is possible but not probable, what you are assuming is that people doing fills are idiots and not self preservation
minded


<If I put an O2 clean sticker on a cylinder, it means I actually O2 cleaned it, and I'm not taking it on faith that it's still clean enough to flow 100% O2 into.>

So, if someone comes into your shop for a VIP with a O2 clean sticker on his tank your going to charge this guy to O2 clean it again on the assumtion some dive shop filled his tank with oxygen and had grease on their hands. I'm not trying to be flippant, but can't follow the logic. I have read the O2 hand book and ANSI for gas equiptment, also taught gas welding, not that it matters but am some what familar with the behavior of gases.

 

[Scared Silly]

Membrane fills are a premix gas, usually 32% or 36% that is banked.

Small nit, gas from a membrane system does not necessarily get banked. It can go directly into a cylinder. Also membrane gas is not necessarily O2 compatible - the same with nitrox made with a stick.

If your tanks are O2 cleaned and you frequent a reputable shop that uses O2 and quality air for a partial pressure fill your tanks are never contamined.

That is should be universally true. But unfortunately, that is never always true.

As far as a hydro test the water used comes from a hose then pressurized air is blown in. There are no hydrocarbons in water.

There are no hydrocarbons in water per say but the problem is that the water in the jacket is not clean nor is the hose that the water comes from which can and will get into cylinder being tested. Last time I checked rubber is a hydrocarbon.

Also air is NEVER introduced into the cylinder during a hydro. That is the whole point - air is compressible and expands violently, water for all intents and purposes is incompressible so if the cylinder cracks the water comes pissing out. If it was air you could have an explosion.

What seems to be the problem is some shops are not educated on PSI stickers.

That is hardly the problem. Most shops are making up their own rules. Which include not following OSHA rules.

PSI does not make O2 clean stickers. The green sticker reads" SUITABLE FOR ENRICHED AIR" and has a record stating they were O2 cleaned by PSI.

True, PSI follows OSHA standards which means that enriched air is anything over 23.5% and thus the cylinder is clean to be O2 compatible.

Anyway, if your tanks were previously O2 cleaned by another shop with their sticker, a year later same tanks are then taken to a PSI certified guy, he takes your O2 sticker off and puts a green psi sticker on.

Before putting an O2 sticker on the cylinders who ever inspecting them had damn well better checking to insure that the cylinders are still in an O2 compatible state. If not there are going to be O2 cleaned or a red air only sticker is going on them.

 

[Scared Silly]

I had a guy bring two tanks for hydro/vip a while back and it had that PSI green sticker (I think PSI strickers are the crudest looking stickers I've ever seen) Anyway the sticker did NOT indicate in any way that the tanks had been cleaned for o2 service. He thought they were o2 cleaned because the sticker was green.... I offered to clean the tanks or put a Pre-mix sticker on. He opted for the latter. This just happened again a few days ago (in fact the tank is still at the hydro shop) where the diver tells me that the tank has been o2 cleaned, but there is no o2 service sticker (or any vip sticker) on the tank. Only an old "Enriched Air" band... So I'm cleaning the valve & tank so he can get an o2 cleaned sticker....

As noted PSI follows OSHA standards which means the anything over 23.5% is enriched air and thus by default must by O2 clean.

A premix sticker is BS from an OSHA point of view and thus if there is a problem - OSHA will be all over them and they will soon find they have no insurance coverage for not following the rules. And be out of business.