Great Blue Hole

[Troy G.]

I wanted to say thank you to most whom posted in response to this post. I have about a year until I land in Belize and many dive in between. One thing is for sure, I will always dive within my limits and abilities and will take this into great consideration when it comes time to planning my dives in Belize. My safety and the safety of others I dive with is paramount.

I believe that most people in these forums are legit and have a lot of expertise to offer. In the same breath I have come to the realization that some people will always have something negative to say about certain dive sites across the planet. Some will even offer their opinion having never dove a specific site.

I guess this is an inherent hazard of posting questions in any public forum. With that said, I will seek answers from reputable sources rather than relying on an internet forum.

I am also coming to realize that that the diving community is not as tight knit as I originally once thought.

Lessons Learned!

 

[Hawkwood]

You got the answers you were seeking, from folks who have dived it.

I've been there. It's a disguised "trust me" decompression dive. Your briefing will tell you that there won't be any stopping on the way down. "We will stop at a couple of nice spots on the way up". Goodness, what do you think those would be?

As others have said, the dive following the Blue Hole is terrific and among the prettiest dives you will ever do. You did read the article from the San Pedro newspaper I posted? Even PADI has been concerned regarding what operators are doing with divers at the Blue Hole.

 

[Troy G.]

Hawk, I have heard the follow on dives are pretty awesome. If it is anywhere near the quality of the reefs near Rivera Maya, it would be a real treat.

 

[The Chairman]

My perspective:

The "trust me" situation in Belize and the Blue Hole in particular has reached epic proportions to the point that the largest certification agency, PADI has issued a public warning to all the dive ops there. That's simply huge as they have never felt compelled to do that before. The problem with trust me dives, is that they appear so innocuous. People do them all the time and never get hurt but some do take a hit. PADI has heard enough standards violations concerning BH and have had to deal with enough injuries as to take the unprecedented step to issue that warning. Let that sink in for a bit. Is PADI being negative or simply being prudent? Taking the deep diver course is a first step to diving the Blue Hole safely. You should also have Deco Procedures and probably NitrOx and extended range NitrOx too so that you actually understand how and why they are herding you the way they do. Is this doable in a year's time? Sure. I would urge you to do just that if you want to make the dive less of a trust me dive. I'll dive BH one day but I've already been certified extended range with Deco procedures and I've done a number of far deeper deco dives than this will require. I would definitely not want to do it on a single 80 though.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I wanted to say thank you to most whom posted in response to this post. I have about a year until I land in Belize and many dive in between. One thing is for sure, I will always dive within my limits and abilities and will take this into great consideration when it comes time to planning my dives in Belize. My safety and the safety of others I dive with is paramount.

I believe that most people in these forums are legit and have a lot of expertise to offer. In the same breath I have come to the realization that some people will always have something negative to say about certain dive sites across the planet. Some will even offer their opinion having never dove a specific site.

I guess this is an inherent hazard of posting questions in any public forum. With that said, I will seek answers from reputable sources rather than relying on an internet forum.

I am also coming to realize that that the diving community is not as tight knit as I originally once thought.

Lessons Learned!

You don't have to dive a site like that to know that what some of the operations down there are doing is playing russian roulette with people's lives. And putting others at risk who have deal with the consequences when things go bad. You were asked to provide the other sites where you only saw good reviews. Nothing so far?

Your statement about the dive community not being as tight as you thought it was is spoken like someone who has spent too much time around people who don't speak the unvarnished truth about things. I'd say the posters here who are trying to keep people from killing themselves and being killed by these yahoos who lead them like this are pretty damn tight. More so than the people who might just be sock puppets posting only good things.
We also look out for those who have to deal with the results. They are the resources that are tied up when someone doesn't have an accident but gets hurt because they chose to do somethimg stupid. They are also then not available for those real accidents.
I care greatly about the dive community and most people in it. Those who choose to put themselves and others at unnecessary risk? Not one whit. They are the ones who get sites closed, insurance rates sky high, and give the entire industry a bad name when they lie about the real risks. We are better off without them.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Troy G.]

Jim, if you see my post above, I kept it "safe" and more or less a closing remark. I have been offended by 2 people to whom should remain anonymous to avoid receiving another infraction. Sorry for not posting any links as I have been to many sites and do not remember the ones which are "pro" BH and which ones were not.

I spent 21 years in the US Army Light Infantry so you can trust that I have spent most of those years surrounded by the "unvarnished truth" an in a far more dangerous environment than diving. I also know exactly what a tight knit group and esprit de corps feels like.

I appreciate all whom are concerned about the safety of others and will use some comments as ammunition going forward. I am done talking about this and would like to move on. I hope all can respect my decision to do so.

 

[AWMIII]

There are different types of divers. One instructor friend of mine will not do any tech diving because "Tech divers see dead people". No one has said this, but 35 dives is not what most divers would consider "numerous dives" as you said in your first posting. The people who offended you were trying to state this without sounding like dicks.


I love the Blue Hole dive. But here is the reality of it. You will still be an inexperienced diver at 35 dives in several years. You may be a well trained disciplined diver, but you will be inexperienced. The typical Blue Hole dive exceeds PADI standards in several ways. It is too deep. It is almost universally below 130. They do not require divers to have experience or be certified to that depth. There is no redundant air supply or redundant regulators. All divers suffer some impairment at that point. Many will deny or not notice it. It is a Cavern Dive (that fact is often not mentioned) Most divers swim through the stalactites in the mouth of the cavern. It is likely a DECO dive with no redundant air. It is my experience that on the day boats, few people on the dive will even have their own computers. People get bent with some regularity(read the post "Bent in Belize"). It is a long ride back to San Pedro to the chamber if you get bent. Periodically there is a fatality. People with pre-existing conditions frequently die under the stress of diving, especially diving deep. There are very different safety standards outside of the US. There is also a different view on life or death. When a tourist dies in Belize, a trash bag is put over the head and they are thrown on the dock to await a trip to Belize City. There are usually pictures in the local news showing the body. My point in mentioning this is that they culturally have a different view on life or death and take different risks that we do in the US. There is almost no legal liability in Belize. You will just have to prepare yourself for a different point of view.

If you want to do this dive the best way to do it is from the liveaboards. They usually have special pricing in the fall. We dove it with Sundancer and we had 25% nitrox for the dive which changes the risk of getting bent dramatically. They get there before the day boats so the sharks are not as spooked and the viz is best. Then they are not in a hurry to get you through your surface interval. Most of the divers will be more experienced divers so your risk of getting attacked by an OOA rookie diver at 120ft are much less. I have also dove it with Amigos Del Mar out of San Pedro. Working up to the dive is the best plan. Have some experience at that depth before you head out. Learn about Nitrox. Take Rescue.

Tech divers tend to be very blunt and may be taken as offensive, but realize they are being realistic about the risks. Tech divers may sound gruff and offensive while trying to be helpful. there are different cultures in the dive community. This is a borderline tech dive. That's why experienced divers always seem to be negative about inexperienced divers doing the dive. Rather than think I am a dick, go out and get experience. I live in Philadelphia and target 100 open water dives a year. I do both cold water and warm water diving. I also spend about 6 weekends a year in the pool practicing and teaching. If you are planning 15 months out, focus on the training and experience. As I stated before even the local diving in Belize is intermediate and above diving.

Maybe the 3 inches of fresh snow outside my office on ST Patrick's Day has put me in a bad mood?

 

[The Chairman]

I appreciate all whom are concerned about the safety of others and will use some comments as ammunition going forward. I am done talking about this and would like to move on. I hope all can respect my decision to do so.

Don't take it personally if the thread continues. Feedback is a bonus and you've got a lot already and I'm sure there's a bit more to come. Take it all with a grain of salt and realize that people are writing not just for you, but also for the thousands of lurkers who may never have the courage to post, but they will read everything on a certain topic or three. If you grow tired of a thread, even your own, just unsubscribe through your userCP or by clicking on Unsubscribe from this thread from the "Thread Tools" drop down at the top of the thread.

 

[Mike]

All anyone with any sense needs to do is look for smoke when there is fire.

Simply ask yourself where is the smoke and the answer is in why do some dive operators dive the blue whole in the way they do when they have supposedly are only taking certified, qualified divers with the proper training, equipment and experience to dive to 130 ft on an AL 80.

1) Why do they run herd over the group, avoiding buddy pairing and acting like mother hens checking, working and manipulating everyone's individual air supply as a community air supply?
2) Why to they do a deco stop disguised as a 'shark viewing opportunity' when they claim it's a non-deco dive and nobody goes into deco?
3) Why do they hang tanks at the safety stop if everyone is qualified and there is no increased risk of anybody going OOA?

On the one side of the argument there is the camp that says this is all just showing how safe we are, this is over and above what is required because we are looking out for our divers safety. Of course this is the side that makes all the money by getting as many divers as possible to keep feeding the cash cow dive site of the blue hole for the belize dive operators

On the other side of the argument is people who understand that something isn't right when you're doing deco stops on a 'non-deco' dive, they are hanging tanks if there is no additional danger on this dive of divers frequently going OOA on the dive, the dive master isn't mine and 7 other people's buddy, my buddy is my buddy, the air on my back is mine and my buddies emergency air, not the groups collective air to be divided and manipulated as the dive master see fit. Anyone who wants to can easily see all this as a carefully managed and disguised methodology that has evolved in order to manage a dive that is either one of these or a combination, you take your pick :

1) The dive consists of a profile that exceeds the conditions of the certification of just OW certified divers
2) Divers who aren't certified for the dive or those who are technically certified for the dive but who don't meet the experience level and ability level are routinely being taken on the dive

One good in all this apparently there is enough internet knowledge out there because of SB that the OP put on some brakes and came here to ask why is there so much negativity. That's a good thing, the OP even though he doesn't understand it all, there is enough of it that he at least says he is going to get some further training and experience.

That's far better than some of the older posts on SB about brand new OW divers diving the blue hole as their first certified dives! Maybe something is changing?

 

[Dive-aholic]

My perspective:

The "trust me" situation in Belize and the Blue Hole in particular has reached epic proportions to the point that the largest certification agency, PADI has issued a public warning to all the dive ops there. That's simply huge as they have never felt compelled to do that before. The problem with trust me dives, is that they appear so innocuous. People do them all the time and never get hurt but some do take a hit. PADI has heard enough standards violations concerning BH and have had to deal with enough injuries as to take the unprecedented step to issue that warning. Let that sink in for a bit. Is PADI being negative or simply being prudent? Taking the deep diver course is a first step to diving the Blue Hole safely. You should also have Deco Procedures and probably NitrOx and extended range NitrOx too so that you actually understand how and why they are herding you the way they do. Is this doable in a year's time? Sure. I would urge you to do just that if you want to make the dive less of a trust me dive. I'll dive BH one day but I've already been certified extended range with Deco procedures and I've done a number of far deeper deco dives than this will require. I would definitely not want to do it on a single 80 though.

My wife and I got up early the morning of our Blue Hole trip and walked about a 1/2 mile each way on the beach to rent a couple of 30s to bring along with us for redundancy. We were the only ones with extra cylinders and were looked at strangely by the other divers but we stayed safe. And we used those cylinders on the later 2 dives to extend our bottom time on those beautiful reefs, which is really why we did the Blue Hole trip.