Got My DM - But I Don't Want to Dive "This Way"...

[bfw]

Personally I think that for the basic certifications (such as PADI Open Water Diver) all the instructors and DMs should dive the same or similar gear as the students does and donate the same air sources the students does and so on. Its easier for new divers

I believe if I was running a beginner class I wouldn't want a DM in tech gear and hog set up. Students look at their "instructors" be it a DM, AI are the real instructor, how and what he-she dives with. Diving is new to them and a learning curve. They need to get that down before they get mixed signals....Again the key word here is beginner students! They have a learning curve. I would not make it harder than it is.

To use something different runs the risk of confusing them.

So, do y'all ever teach a dive class that does NOT arrive at the pool on a short bus?
You all seem to assume your students are slack jawed morons. If they're truly that easily confused, you should switch to training collies and poodles - it'll be a step up in the level of learning.

Realistically, there are two student responses to instructor gear:

1) "What, the instructor had gear?" These don't notice the instructor's gear, and pretty much don't notice much of anything. They probably shouldn't be diving because their situational and environmental awareness is too low.

2) "I see your gear is a different - why?" The students who generally DO notice are generally curious, but will readily understand an explanation behind the differences. The only real issue is not taking up class time with answering their questions, and if you tell them you'll answer after class, maybe over coffee at Denny's, that problem is solved.

Either your students are NOT drooling idiots, or you're not helping the sport by training them. If you operate as if they were idiots, you need to ask yourself why you can't get better students, or why you can't respect their intelligence.

 

[bfw]

I'll break it down like this ...

1. we need to interest as many people as we can in our sport
....
2. we need to bring them along at a pace which they are comfortable with
5. when students don't have fun are a great time they stop
6. again they are beginners they don't need to be "tempted my the dark side as he calls it"
7. let beginers be beginners

2, 3, 6, and 7 seems to indicate you've decided to solve #1 by teaching the developmentally disabled to dive. I don't think that's a noble pursuit.

 

[bfw]

Despite opinions I've heard and read here on SB, a backplate and wing reg is NOT a technical diving rig. It's just a BC.

Exactly. There's this weird belief that if you try to improve or optimize in any way, you're some kind of tech weenie. It's just another BCD. There are dozens of variations among the "Top-40" BCD's, most of them marketing gimmicks and bold new graphics, and it's all good, but try to actually use equipment where form follows function, where pragmatics come first, with no neon racing stripes, and it's going to turn beginning students into deer in the headlights.

Seems to me what some people are really objecting to is that these students might not run out and buy a $600 fashion statement from the LDS when they get certified, that they might piece together a BPW online for under $300 from small suppliers who don't spend enough on advertising in PADI's Sport Diver Magazine.

 

[BHB ScubaTroll]

Background:

I got back into diving 3 years ago after a 20+ year surface interval. A year later I decided to become a DM and paid my money and started on the road which then took almost two years (many stops and starts). I finished my DM several weeks ago and was asked to "help out" with my first class by my DM instructor/mentor.

During the two year period, my dear sweet wife gently cajoled me over to "the dark side" -- very slowly over -- first with Essentials, then Rec 2, then GUE DIR-F, then Cavern/Intro to Cave, next NAUI HeliOx and lastly Full Cave. In other words, I'm diving a full Hog Rig (BP/W, can light, long hose, bungied backup, no snorkel, jet fins/frog kick, etc.). I must say, I do like my gear setup (which includes the AI Cobra instead of an SPG and AI Vytec on my wrist -- not totally "in the dark!").

During my whole DM training, my instructor/mentor "suggested" I dive a "normal" rig in the pool (SeaQuest Balance) but let me keep my snorkel in my pocket per standards but also let me dive the BP/W (and sometimes doubles) during OW dives with the classes.

So now I have my DM card and agreed to "help out" with an OW class with my instructor/mentor. I showed up at the pool with the same gear I'd been using in my DM class (SeaQuest Balance, Airsource, snorkel in pocket). At the end of the class it was "suggested" that I put the snorkel on my mask so that the students wouldn't be confused. Hmmmm.

Today I asked him if he minded if I dove "my gear" in OW and told him I wasn't all that comfortable diving the Balance in OW. (I haven't dived it in OW for two years.) He "suggested" that I ditch the "technical gear" and just dive the "regular" gear so as to NOT confuse the students AND so as to defuse potential liability issues/questions (don't ask!). He also told me I shouldn't worry about my trim (etc.) because I'll be so concerned with where students are that my trim won't be of any concern!

What do I want from y'all by writing this? I'm not at all sure. I just needed to put it out there -- just a rant and vent if you will.

My DM career may be a very short one! (However, I've already been asked to work with another instructor/another shop -- she just happens to be a cave diver.)

I have seen this thread for some time now, on the "New Posts" section. I have only read your post and Dennis' post (and... thanked him for it...)

You must dive what you are comfortable with...

You seem to be at a "cross-road" Hog theory/Non-Hog theory. What do you feel is best for you? (Personally, I dive a mix... long hose (the first week I had it was the first time I ever needed to donate...). I don't like the bungee around my neck, it bothers the heck out of me. I am about to switch it out for a snorkel retainer on one of my "d-rings" to hold my octo (Yes, my octo will still become my second... but I dive with the same reg S600 for my second and octo, not a big deal...) I dive with a computer on my console, the same computer puck in my weight bag, and a Citizen Hyper Aqualand dive watch... (can't wait until they come up with a Nitrox watch... bastiges!)...

Bottom line... if you are not comfortable, your students are not comfortable. I insisted on sitting in for my son's classes, and the LDS was more than hospitible for that request... Now, my son is over 18, and I trust his judgement when he is diving (most of the time..), of course... I should be dead by now... based on cert. information I obtained by sitting in on the son's classes

 

[Thalassamania]

...
I'll break it down like this ...

1. we need to interest as many people as we can in our sport
2. we need to bring them along at a pace which they are comfortable with
3. a lot freak out now about prices we have to show them it's not unrealistic when they do other sports like bowl are play golf, hunt etc.
4. diving is about FUN we dive to have FUN
5. when students don't have fun are a great time they stop
6. again they are beginners they don't need to be "tempted my the dark side as he calls it"
7. let beginers be beginners

What I'm saying here they will learn about tech gear when the time comes they are confused about which equipment now. You should know this as you've have over 10.000 posts and help many a newbie here.

And I a lot of times couldn't comment in treads because your advice was so perfect ... but here you missed the boat completely.

Bob,

I don't get it.

1. What does that have to do with the style of gear used?
2. What does that have to do with the style of gear used?
3. What does that have to do with the style of gear used?
4. What does that have to do with the style of gear used?
5. What does that have to do with the style of gear used?
6. What difference does it make?
7. What does that have to do with the style of gear used?

 

[marinediva]

I'm sitting back reading this and can see both point of view, for me it is important to have the same gear. In saying that I have taught in two situations, one very large "cattle boat" thai school,
and currently as an independent instructor. I usually have only (couples) My Bcd's range in design, and style.
Now the biggest difference in these two groups of students is the students in Thailand are young,
on holidays, and there next port of call is Australia and they really want to dive the GBR and it is so much cheaper it learn to dive in Thailand than Australia, and oh yeah, there mates are doing it.

Whereas the couple have thought about it, they have planned it in their weekly budget, they plan to dive as often as possible.

Some of the students I had the pleasure of teaching in Thailand could hardly understand english let alone my aussie accent as well. I had people who had never swum in salt water before which for an australian was so hard to imagine.

I have seen the benefits of the whole class wearing school gear in this situation. I know these people will leave Thailand with maybe four dives after their OWcourse, and they will go to Australia, and have another ten dives or so, using the same or so similar gear it is not funny,
and then (if we haven't left them of a reef ofcourse) they will go to Fiji, and use the same gear for the six dives they do there,
and finally, on the live aboard in Malaysia they dive for six days using the same gear before they go home to Europe and never dive again till the xmas trip to the Red Sea.

These guys just want to keep it simple.
They just want to dive deep enough to see the sharks at 30m or stay under long enough to get some great shots on the underwater hold and shoot.

That is why it makes a difference.

 

[DeepSeaExplorer]

That's ridiculous. One of the most common errors students and beginners make is using too much weight, or assuming that everyone needs the same weight. Wearing no weight sets a positive example in numerous ways. If you're acting as victim for unconscious diver rescue practice, wear one with no weight, or use it as a teachable moment to show that they may not always encounter a weight belt.

You missed the word reconfigured in my post. I'm not diving overweighted. I switched from a steel plate to AL and made up the difference with lead so I have a belt to ditch.

If you think that's an inconvenience, then you are putting yourself ahead of the students. Then, you have to decide if your serious about instructing/assisting, or go back to what you were doing.

 

[ahava]

Grats wiht the DM cert.

Personally I think that for the basic certifications (such as PADI Open Water Diver) all the instructors and DMs should dive the same or similar gear as the students does and donate the same air sources the students does and so on. Its easier for new divers to relate to one gear setup on their class dives than it would with several different ones.
However, anything other than basic certs (for PADI that would be AOW and beyond) the gear the instructors dive shouldnt matter as the divers should be ready for "new stuff" or else they shouldnt be there in the first place. Not that they shouldnt be ready for new stuff in OW of course, but there EVERYTHING is new to begin with... (for most)

BINGO

 

[ahava]

I dont recall anyone in this thread saying their students were idiots or morons!!! Its all about learning from the beginning. Just like learning to read you start with the ABC's not full words or sentances. Skills are the ABC's and are what we are teaching at this point. After they are OW certified is the time to talk about different gear set ups. If students are planning to buy gear during classes let them know they have choices before they buy. But OW is about skills. They need to be focused on these.

 

[24940]

Hey Peter,

I can't believe I forgot to say congratulations. I know it's a bit of a tight rope act at times, but I know you'll find a good fit.

For me, the answer was to become an instructor. Of course that has its own set of issues, but I'm finally running the class I want to run, the way I want to run it. It's a great experience to convert an apprehensive, "don't know if I can do this" student to a diver you are confident in.

Congrats!

Dave