Got My DM - But I Don't Want to Dive "This Way"...

[Bob Vincent]

Well maybe you shouldn't work with OW Students ... stay with the tech classes where you'll feel at home. I believe if I was running a beginner class I wouldn't want a DM in tech gear and hog set up. Students look at their "instructors" be it a DM, AI are the real instructor, how and what he-she dives with. Diving is new to them and a learning curve. They need to get that down before they get mixed signals.

They don't need to be redundant, they don't need 130's, they don't need a 100 lb OMS wing, and a mixed gas puter, they don't need to see are understand a swing set up. They are new beginner OW students. The learning curve is enough for now. But If I was running an extended deep are wreck glass I'd give you a buzz.

If you are going to become an instructor you have to remember little steps first.

 

[Azza]

 

[TSandM]

They don't need to be redundant, they don't need 130's, they don't need a 100 lb OMS wing, and a mixed gas puter, they don't need to see are understand a swing set up. They are new beginner OW students.

What does any of this have to do with wanting to dive a backplate and wing single tank setup in OW?

Despite opinions I've heard and read here on SB, a backplate and wing reg is NOT a technical diving rig. It's just a BC. Even if you put doubles on it, it's not a TECHNICAL setup. I know, because I dive a backplate and wing and doubles, and I don't do any open water technical diving at all. In the Puget Sound area, it's not at ALL uncommon to see pure recreational divers in backplates. They make a lot of sense in places where you're diving cold water and need a lot of weight.

Objecting to a BP/W setup is like saying that since the students are in jacket BCs, the DMs can't use back inflate. The only objection I could see to a BP/W is that it is very slightly more difficult to get a disabled diver out of a harness than out of a BC with releases. And if you're planning on your DM getting disabled during class, you've got more problems than what kind of gear he's using

 

[Cacia]

....what does that say really?

that they are generally very authoritarian *types*?

Getting out of a BP/W with substantial weight, in rough seas IS very difficult, I find, FWIW.

 

[Bob Vincent]

TSandM it has everything to do with it, to give you an answer. But did you miss the part about the doubles? The Hog setup?

Again the key word here is beginner students! They have a learning curve. I would not make it harder than it is. They have all this cool stuff to learn about and how it operates and it's use.

I'm not saying anything about a wing, don't read between the lines a wing is the next thing I used after I retired a horse collar. ( besides using Doubles for wreck penetration, I now want a new Oceanic Islander 2 back inflate for warm water trips for myself because of the weight savings ... but prefer to use a jacket style BCD to get higher out of the water to see students in a water situation )

I'll break it down like this ...

1. we need to interest as many people as we can in our sport
2. we need to bring them along at a pace which they are comfortable with
3. a lot freak out now about prices we have to show them it's not unrealistic when they do other sports like bowl are play golf, hunt etc.
4. diving is about FUN we dive to have FUN
5. when students don't have fun are a great time they stop
6. again they are beginners they don't need to be "tempted my the dark side as he calls it"
7. let beginers be beginners

What I'm saying here they will learn about tech gear when the time comes they are confused about which equipment now. You should know this as you've have over 10.000 posts and help many a newbie here.

And I a lot of times couldn't comment in treads because your advice was so perfect ... but here you missed the boat completely.

 

[amascuba]

TSandM it has everything to do with it, to give you an answer. But did you miss the part about the doubles? The Hog setup?

What's different about a hog setup that an open water student wouldn't understand? By the time they are doing their open water check out dives the student should have a firm grasp of the concept of a bcd and the functions of a regulator. There is nothing different about a hog setup that a open water shouldn't be able to grasp quickly.

Again the key word here is beginner students! They have a learning curve. I would not make it harder than it is. They have all this cool stuff to learn about and how it operates and it's use.

True, new students do have a learning curve. Scuba can be a sport that a person never stops learning. It depends on how far individual students care to take it. Wouldn't you, as an instructor, want the ability to provide your students with as much knowledge as you can to show them what they might encounter during their diving adventures? With as many gear manufactures and different gear options available as their are, wouldn't you want to take the time to discuss those options and even show them the gear if you have it available? Contrary to popular belief, people taking scuba classes aren't idiots, so why treat them like they are? IMHO, being closed minded and not allowing dive staff to wear certain gear configurations, while using the excuse that the staff should be wearing the same 'type' of gear as students is the same as saying that your students are too stupid to grasp the concepts of different types of gear and configurations. It's also an deep embedded excuse for the shop to push their own lines of gear, aka marketing ploy. (I know as much of the IDC/IE is geared towards marketing as it is actually teaching people how to dive even though I haven't taken an instructor course yet. I know this from talking with various course directors about taking an instructor course and listening to first hand experiences from instructors who have taken the course.)

I'm not saying anything about a wing, don't read between the lines a wing is the next thing I used after I retired a horse collar. ( besides using Doubles for wreck penetration, I now want a new Oceanic Islander 2 back inflate for warm water trips for myself because of the weight savings ... but prefer to use a jacket style BCD to get higher out of the water to see students in a water situation )

Can you explain the bolded portion more? Thanks.

I'll break it down like this ...

1. we need to interest as many people as we can in our sport
2. we need to bring them along at a pace which they are comfortable with
3. a lot freak out now about prices we have to show them it's not unrealistic when they do other sports like bowl are play golf, hunt etc.
4. diving is about FUN we dive to have FUN
5. when students don't have fun are a great time they stop
6. again they are beginners they don't need to be "tempted my the dark side as he calls it"
7. let beginers be beginners

Agreed, and the OP, Peter, isn't taking any of that away from students by diving the gear that he chooses to use.

What I'm saying here they will learn about tech gear when the time comes they are confused about which equipment now. You should know this as you've have over 10.000 posts and help many a newbie here.

And I a lot of times couldn't comment in treads because your advice was so perfect ... but here you missed the boat completely.

Honestly, who's missed the boat? You're a MSDT with over 3000 dives.

I don't know why people keep bringing up "technical gear" so much in this thread. Too many people view a backplate and wing as technical gear, when in reality it's just a BCD just like any BCD on the market. It's a very minimal BCD, but it does serve the exact same purpose of any jacket or back inflate BCD on the market and it's a heck of a lot more versatile. Peter stated that he used the "standard OW gear" in the pool and his backplate and wing in OW.

Using his standard OW gear in the pool, where he will be potentially be doing demonstrations is fine. He can show them how to use weight pockets and unfasten the snaps on the shoulders, etc. In OW however, there are not demonstrations. As he states, he's there to observe and assist. I use a BP/W with singles and a short hose configuration in the pool. I'm able to demonstrate all the skills with demonstration quality to the students in the pool, even the bcd removal and replace. In OW I use my doubles with a long hose. If students are curious I'm more than happy to discuss the configuration with them and they grasp it. My shop owner has no problem with it.

 

[diver 85]

IMO, you'll have good enough trim......I guess you'll need to go with what he says, after all, he's the boss(so to speak)........And honestly, what's wrong with wearing a snorkel???...sort of like wearing a seat belt if you ask me---the worst it will do is save your life........

 

[amascuba]

And honestly, what's wrong with wearing a snorkel???...sort of like wearing a seat belt if you ask me---the worst it will do is save your life........

It gets in the way and it's pointless underwater.

 

[dschonbrun]

One of the fundamentals of PADI DM is that you are a role model. And that extends to the type of equipment. In order to teach a pool class, you should be using exactly the same type of BC, Reg, Mask and Snorkel that your students (those who rent) are using. To use something different runs the risk of confusing them.

After all the skills have been completed... perhaps in dives 4 and 5.... while guiding, then it's ok to use markedly different gear.

Remember, it's about being a role model and keeping it simple and fun.

 

[Thalassamania]

It gets in the way and it pointless underwater.

It only gets in the way, with all due respect, if you've never been shown how to mount it properly, with is the case for almost every scuba diver I've ever seen, newbie or old, moss-covered pro.