Got My DM - But I Don't Want to Dive "This Way"...

[MXGratefulDiver]

In the grand scheme of economic reality, these "itinerant" C/Ds that you refer to are not going to have a major impact on anything. At best they are an anomaly.

I wouldn't be so sure about that if I were you ... This fellow has been around an awful long time ... and he doesn't own a dive shop. With respect to NAUI training, I'd say he's had a significant impact.

The rubber hits the road in the real world of dive shops.

Who is going to service your gear, if no dive shop? Even if you buy all you gear online??

And where are you going to get your air/nitrox/trimix/argon fills, if no dive shop???

We're discussing dive training ... not gear sales. The latter's a subject that's being beaten to death elsewhere.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Hank49]

I think in more cases, people learn to dive and buy gear....THEN get comfortable diving in it. My first bc was a piece of crap. I tried it on after I'd used another type and it was too big and ....a poc. But I still loved to dive in it.
I don't don't know of anyone that didn't pursue diving because they weren't comfortable in rented or purchased gear. ?? Usually it's just that they aren't water people, or live far from any diving area.

 

[Thalassamania]

Thal, I am thinking that all of your diving must be scientific and/or governmental.

In the real world of retail scuba, you must be both a salesman and a teacher, as a D/M and as an Instructor. ...

And I, for one, think that is wrong. There are many industries that are not organized that way (skiing for example) and there are a reasonably large number of independent instructors out there with similar views.

In the grand scheme of economic reality, these "itinerant" C/Ds that you refer to are not going to have a major impact on anything. At best they are an anomaly.

The rubber hits the road in the real world of dive shops.

Who is going to service your gear, if no dive shop? Even if you buy all you gear online??

And where are you going to get your air/nitrox/trimix/argon fills, if no dive shop???

What horse pucky. Not too long ago virtually all the C/Ds that there were were "itinerant," because there was no money in it when you considered the time and effort that it took to reach that position. Now that it's just another patch that you can take a class and wear, you think that's the "real world?"

The real world is not the dive shops, by and large they're already dead, they still walking but they just don't know it yet. I think that in less than 10 years the brick and mortar dive shop will be an anomaly and will be replaced by a structure that is more like a health club than a retail shop ... the products will be membership and facilities access, training and services, not retail goods.

 

[Kingpatzer]

I haven't read the whole threat, but it sounds like it is an issue with the shop owner.

Now, I absolutely believe that in the pool you should have the same gear set-up as the majority of students precisely because you are going to be demonstrating skills per an agency standard, and the students are going to be copying you. If your gear is substantially different from theirs, then you will simply be engaging in bad pedagogy. And frankly, it's a poor dive master who can't be a good example to a new student in gear identical to the students. More to the point, how uncomfortable do you have to be in 10' of pool water to need to change to your favorite set-up?

However, in the OW dives, where skills are tested, not demonstrated, what gear the DM is wearing should be immaterial. When leading dives, what gear the DM is wearing is equally unimportant.

I'm lucky enough to be associated with a dive store that sells both recreational and technical gear, and isn't snobby about either. The owner and instructors all recognize that dive gear is a choice that involves both the type of diving one is doing, as well as the person's individual preferrences.

But even though they sell and service bp/w setups, have plenty of doubles in the shop, and even run technical classes where such setups are required, in OW you'll find many instructors wearing the same jacket bc's that are being given to the students to wear. Why? It is good instructional practice to standardize equipment to best demonstrate skills. But it's not a store requirement.

It is, in large part, the same ideal as team diving. Standardization is good. Not just in technical diving, but also in basic instruction.

But really, a more practical reason for me is: why would I want to subject my nice wing to chlorine, when I can freely use some rental gear? I'm not getting paid enough to ruin gear just so I'm more comfortable.

 

[Cacia]

Who is going to service your gear, if no dive shop?

Mikey's scuba repair.

he is in the phone book, that is what I do.

The shop just charges me to send it to him anyway. Plus, Mikey lets me watch.

many, many shops do not have repair benches, water baths, experienced technicians, all that stuff.

The key to many successful transactions, for me, is to remove the middle man.

Not only more cost effective, but the chances of things getting screwed up are exponentially reduced by eliminating the number of people handling my stuff.

I bet you could put me in Florida tomorrow, and I could find a repair guy in five phone calls...a good one too. It all starts with asking questions and passing or failing the person on the other end of the phone.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Mikey's scuba repair.

he is in the phone book, that is what I do.

The shop just charges me to send it to him anyway. Plus, Mikey lets me watch.

many, many shops do not have repair benches, water baths, all that stuff.

The key to many successful transactions, for me, is to remove the middle man.

Not only more cost effective, but the chances of things getting screwed up are exponentially reduced by eliminating the number of people handling my stuff.

I bet you put me in Florida tomorrow, and I could find a repair guy in five phone calls...a good one too.

Exactly ... around here a lot of the dive shops send their regs to the same person for servicing ... I send him mine too, I just don't need a shop to do it for me.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Peter Guy]

I thought this thread had died a natural death, but, I'm "forced" to respond to a couple of comments.

1. No, as I have written several times, "my" shop doesn't force me to sell gear for them -- they have sales people to do that. My only requirement is NOT to knock the shop (which I won't). In fact, I will gladly suggest that people buy some of the gear the shop sells.

2. There is NO requirement for any DM to wear the same gear as the students, as I've written several times. In fact, I don't know any DM, AI or Instructor that uses the same BCD and Regs as the rental gear. They all dive in their own gear and most have "pool gear" and OW gear (which are different).

Some of you (professionals) seem to think that all shops and places are like yours. At least from what I see around here, that is NOT the case.

PS "After further review" (I was able to discuss the "cross-over" class in greater detail) I've decided to put it off. IF I do a NAUI DM, I want to "Do It Right" and take is slowly so that I have time to absorb the lessons. I'm retired, doing this for fun so why not take it slow and easy?

 

[JayJudge]

My opinion, pool classesuse a setup similar to the student's, I have a pool mask complete with 'norkel. For the open water part, I use a BP/W and doubles. Because of standards, I bungee my norkel to my left tank, under my Jersey upline. The instructors I personally work with do not have a problem with this, it also allows the students to see other techniques and setups, thereby spawning more interest in diving. I know the OP is into DIR, thats fine, but please don't start in on the whole bungee war here. I am just relating my personal experiences, and the fact is, I won't work with a shop that won't let me dive how I feel comfortable. Whatever little amount of money you get, its not worth feeling that you are wronging yourself.
-J

 

[caseybird]

I'm just wondering about something.
If: A) One of the prime tenets of DIR diving is exactly matched gear configuration.
B) Many Scubaboard posters are DIR divers.
C) Who regularly defend the DIR concept of identical equipment for all members of the dive team.
Why is it OK to ignore the team leader (a.k.a. the dive shop owner)
D) who wants his team to use matching gear?

Steve

 

[Thalassamania]

When the gear that the "team leader" (e.g., LDS owner, in this case A.K.A. "Head Stroke") is Stroke gear that is selected on the basis of the "Head Stroke's" profit and loss statement rather than the teams' safety and efficiency.