Got My DM - But I Don't Want to Dive "This Way"...

[Peter Guy]

For what it's worth:

a. The NAUI "cross-over" is all set-up and starts tomorrow;

b. The "junk rental" that "my" shop uses is actually more expensive gear than I'm using -- the regs, in particular, would be considered a "step-up" by most technical divers from my regs (even my technical regs!).

 

[bigvivec]

I was thinking about this some more, and I have to apologize to the OP Peter Guy as a some of my previous frustrations with preoccupied DMs was displaced to you…but the message remains and what I “smelled” between the lines of your original post is that you’d like to continue development in the familiarization with your tec equipment, which for a technical diver is absolutely critical, during your assisting for the OW dives…while I can understand and sympathize with that desire, it isn’t the time or place…as I mentioned, I have worked with DMs in the past that, while being very eager and on their way to becoming great divers, were still in the process of developing technical control (buoyancy mainly) underwater, along with navigation issues and in dive adjustments due to larger than expected gas consumption rates of the weaker members of the party…this in itself is not going to be an issue as you will only be assisting, not guiding tourist dives, and the dive profiles for checkout dives are well within limits of both time and depth in fairly benign environments…BUT…the problem that I have experienced before is that these guys become a little preoccupied with fiddling with their equipment, working on their buoyancy, checking their computers, etc. and lose sight of the reason for their presence…assisting the instructor, easing in water anxiety of the students, basic housekeeping like checking buddies, tank pressure, organizing the in water rendezvous, and herding the students…while you will get the opportunity to dive, it isn’t an opportunity for YOU to dive per se, as your attentions should be on the students…the time for familiarization with your technical dive equipment should be on your own time and while your instructor ought to have been up front with you about his feelings, I agree with him 100%...

Welcome to the pro’s world Peter…and I second the Master diver track if you feel it isn’t for you, or anyone else who is on the fence and reading this…going that route will expose you to everything without the nuisance of leadership responsibility…

 

[bigvivec]

Too much is made about the importance of equipment in diving in general…retail drives the sport and dominates the magazines associated with it…
For a dive professional Stateside, being connected to a dive shop, the retail aspect is huge…my own experiences were in a resort environment where retail played a very little part in the dive equation, with the bulk of revenues coming from resort course dives, beach OW training and diving (never used a pool for training…always in a protected bay), and boat dives…while the gear that we used was fully functional, you can imagine the wear and tear of constant rental usage (resort dives and OW certification had the rigs set up on the beach by 8am and broken down by 3 or 4 pm...sand, sun and salt every day takes its toll) and despite being of good initial quality, gets rough around the edges quickly, but still serviceable…boat divers generally traveled with their own equipment, thus taking the premium off of sales which unfortunately is an integral part of the Stateside dive business…because of that, as another poster mentioned, you are both the model diver as well as the model for shop sales, which as an uncommissoned member of the shop staff isn’t really fair…but a reality of the business…but back to the “junk” gear…the instructors I knew Stateside worked for shops, did pool training, and made weekend trips to a quarry…their equipment and the shop’s were in very good condition and their knowledge of available equipment was excellent as they doubled as sales staff during their working day…all of the guys that I worked with in the shops in St. Thomas had regulators that were years old, fins that were well worn, dive bags that had rust stains from swimming below deck when the bilge wasn’t working, etc…but everything worked, was well maintained, just well used, and if we had to we would wear a tight bc or use a regulator that leaked a little…that was just the reality of working in a resort…the point of all of this for those who feel that this is just a useless post is that a dive professional crosses into different territory than the recreational diver in that they will either be expected or encounter situations that they have to use and promote equipment that they otherwise wouldn’t or equipment that isn’t perfectly suited to them…and they learn to get by…

As far as people being turned off of the sport from less than perfect equipment, I just don’t see it…sure if the regulator isn’t working properly or the bc is badly fitting or the mask leaking the experience will be less than perfect, but it is easy to get a fitted mask, very rarely did we give a bc to someone that wasn’t a decent fit, and the regs were good enough to be not distracting…sometimes needed a smack to get some silt out so they would stop free flowing but that was handled before entering the water…just about all of the guests I encountered exited the water with big, glassy eyes and couldn’t wait to do it again, sun bleached bc’s and all…demanding that every diver make a big investment in top quality equipment before they even hold a C card is more detrimental to the growth of the sport IMO and the industry would realize a better rate of positive growth if a more minimal investment was an option for the person sitting on the fence as to whether they wanted to learn to dive or not…my two cents turned into a pocketful of change, but so it goes…

 

[TSandM]

Peter has a tech pass from GUE Fundamentals, so I think it's fair to say that he's not preoccupied fiddling with his gear or trying to sort out his buoyancy

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

As far as people being turned off of the sport from less than perfect equipment, I just don’t see it…sure if the regulator isn’t working properly or the bc is badly fitting or the mask leaking the experience will be less than perfect, but it is easy to get a fitted mask, very rarely did we give a bc to someone that wasn’t a decent fit, and the regs were good enough to be not distracting…sometimes needed a smack to get some silt out so they would stop free flowing but that was handled before entering the water…just about all of the guests I encountered exited the water with big, glassy eyes and couldn’t wait to do it again, sun bleached bc’s and all…demanding that every diver make a big investment in top quality equipment before they even hold a C card is more detrimental to the growth of the sport IMO and the industry would realize a better rate of positive growth if a more minimal investment was an option for the person sitting on the fence as to whether they wanted to learn to dive or not…my two cents turned into a pocketful of change, but so it goes…

Perhaps you don't see it because of where you dive. I just got back from Indonesia ... and sure, it's much easier to dive cheap gear when the water's 80 degrees, you can see for 100 feet, and you're wearing a 3-mil shortie.

Right here where Peter and I are, the water is currently 48 degrees Fahrenheit (9 degrees C), students generally wear 14 mils of wetsuit, hood, and heavy gloves plus the requisite lead to sink that much neoprene. Regs don't need silt in them to freeflow if they're not properly tuned ... all you gotta do it put them in the cold water. Yesterday's visibility was anywhere from 3 to 10 feet (1 to 3 meters) at depths that you'll be working with OW students ... of course, it was much less than that once the students got there.

Nobody demands that a student purchase anything other than the standard "personal" kit ... mask, fins, and snorkel. But there is certainly a correlation between the gear they learn in and their decision to continue the sport. As Peter pointed out, the shop he's dealing with puts their students in pretty good gear. I mentioned much earlier in the thread that it's a very successful shop ... that's one of the reasons. The owner understands that if you train divers using quality gear, they'll continue diving and purchase quality gear of their own. It's good for business.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[nereas]

...

As far as people being turned off of the sport from less than perfect equipment, I just don’t see it……

I completely agree. I do not see it either. The gear debate does not normally begin with someone until they have been around for a few years, and with some people it never begins at all. The latter continue to faithfully dive with their jacket B/Cs forever.

 

[nereas]

For what it's worth:

a. The NAUI "cross-over" is all set-up and starts tomorrow;

b. The "junk rental" that "my" shop uses is actually more expensive gear than I'm using -- the regs, in particular, would be considered a "step-up" by most technical divers from my regs (even my technical regs!).

Congrats, Peter, on your choice of NAUI.

Even with NAUI course directors (store owners) however, you will still be faced with gear issues. The C/D will want you to showcase his/her store gear. If they do offer BPWs, then you have no problem. However there will still be days when you will want to wear the same gear (like a jacket B/C) as the students. On those days, hopefully you can just borrow one in your size. That is what I did. No course director in their right mind would ever expect a D/M to own their own jacket B/C. And if they did, then I would worry about them. The wing-inflation B/Cs are much more appropriate for a D/M, whether a BPW or a back-inflation B/C.

That is what you are getting yourself into as a D/M for a scuba store. It's just reality. The store needs to sell gear to survive as a business. No business, no store, no scuba class, no students, then no D/M needed. Simple Microeconomics 101.

 

[nereas]

... I'm a teacher, not a salesman...

Thal, I am thinking that all of your diving must be scientific and/or governmental.

In the real world of retail scuba, you must be both a salesman and a teacher, as a D/M and as an Instructor.

This is true as well at the local dive shop in Athens, and NYC, and LA Calif, as well as everywhere in between.

And every store is going to have a bargain-basement type product (such as Oceanic or Mares), and these will likely also comprise the rental fleet as well. So that is what most of the students will be wearing in their basic OW1 class.

Next, the store will have at least one top-of-the-line brand as well, such as Zeagle or ScubaPro.

A smart store that has been around awhile will also offer DSS, or Oxycheq, or ExtremeScuba etc. But not all do. Therefore BPWs do not yet permeate the entire retail industry yet.

Someday maybe, but not yet.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I completely agree. I do not see it either. The gear debate does not normally begin with someone until they have been around for a few years, and with some people it never begins at all. The latter continue to faithfully dive with their jacket B/Cs forever.

Once again ... you don't see it because that gear is more appropriate to where you dive. Different environments beget different perspectives.

But the bottom line is that people will choose gear they are comfortable diving in. And when a new diver is not comfortable diving in the gear their dive shop rented or sold them, there is an increased probability they will decide diving's not an activity they want to pursue.

Congrats, Peter, on your choice of NAUI.
Even with NAUI course directors (store owners) however, you will still be faced with gear issues. The C/D will want you to showcase his/her store gear.

Neither of the local NAUI CDs own a dive store ... nor does the Instructor he will be taking his DM class with.

In the real world of retail scuba, you must be both a salesman and a teacher, as a D/M and as an Instructor.

No, you don't ... that's true only if you choose to teach through a shop. Not everyone does, you know ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[nereas]

Once again ... you don't see it because that gear is more appropriate to where you dive. Different environments beget different perspectives.

But the bottom line is that people will choose gear they are comfortable diving in. And when a new diver is not comfortable diving in the gear their dive shop rented or sold them, there is an increased probability they will decide diving's not an activity they want to pursue.


Neither of the local NAUI CDs own a dive store ... nor does the Instructor he will be taking his DM class with.


No, you don't ... that's true only if you choose to teach through a shop. Not everyone does, you know ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

In the grand scheme of economic reality, these "itinerant" C/Ds that you refer to are not going to have a major impact on anything. At best they are an anomaly.

The rubber hits the road in the real world of dive shops.

Who is going to service your gear, if no dive shop? Even if you buy all you gear online??

And where are you going to get your air/nitrox/trimix/argon fills, if no dive shop???