Got My DM - But I Don't Want to Dive "This Way"...

[MXGratefulDiver]

Oh come on. You are basing this entire mountain of assumptions about the instructor based on a throwaway comment that - from the sound of it - was far more likely intended to bypass a lengthy discussion/argument that the instructor did not want to have.

Actually, I'm basing it on personal knowledge of the shop and the people involved ... my perspective is quite a bit broader than what's being discussed on the Internet, and there are things I'm knowledgeable about which I will not discuss here ... because it would be inappropriate to do so.

I assure you I'm making far fewer assumptions than you imagine ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[nereas]

Then consider this an invitation to come dive in Puget Sound ... you'll find lots of people here in BP/W's ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Brrrrrr.......

Way too cold there !!!

 

[nereas]

This has been very interesting for me to read -- both for the information and for the misunderstandings.

FOR THE RECORD:

a. The shop owner has not said one word to me about this -- ever. The only conversation I've had with paid staff about gear was that it is hoped that all DM's, AI's, I's will encourage students to shop at the store AND that they not bad mouth any of the gear. It has been specifically stated that it is shop policy NOT to require "teaching staff" to use only gear from the shop.

b. My instructor does not dive the same gear in OW as he dives in the pool (in fact, the standard practice is that pool gear is different from OW gear for all teaching staff!). I know that some of the gear my instructor uses in OW is NOT sold by the shop -- but probably most is (although I couldn't tell you what BCD he dives or reg he uses).

c. Since I'm doing this just for kicks, I'll see how it goes and if I don't like the restrictions, I'll just quietly walk away -- no harm, no foul. IF, later, some one asks me why, I'll tell them. Of course the DM "works for" the Instructor and must conform to his wishes -- my only decision is whether to accept his requirements. And, for me, that will be a simple decision to make.

Contrary to the poster who wrote "The solution is conformity" I believe the solution is to find a situation that fits me. (As my wife knows, I've never been one to "conform" -- it just doesn't fit my personality!)

That's the nice thing about the Zeagles. They are a lot like wearing a BPW but with a fabric back area instead.

I am not one for conformity either, but sometimes conformity is necessary.

 

[vkalia]

Actually, I'm basing it on personal knowledge of the shop and the people involved ... my perspective is quite a bit broader than what's being discussed on the Internet, and there are things I'm knowledgeable about which I will not discuss here ... because it would be inappropriate to do so.

I assure you I'm making far fewer assumptions than you imagine ...

Fair enough. But I still maintain that the instructor comment is not relevant to the question Peter has raised for discussion in this forum, under the constraints of what he has chosen to share with us.

Frankly, if there are all these issues relevant to Peter's case that are not appropriate to discuss on the forum and these issues are more important than the gear choice, as you say they are, then I am not even sure what the point of this discussion is.

Ok, now I am really off.

Vandit

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Fair enough. But I still maintain that the instructor comment is not relevant to the question Peter has raised for discussion in this forum, under the constraints of what he has chosen to share with us.

Frankly, if there are all these issues relevant to Peter's case that are not appropriate to discuss on the forum and these issues are more important than the gear choice, as you say they are, then I am not even sure what the point of this discussion is.

Ok, now I am really off.

Vandit

I wouldn't call them issues ... more like history and context. I've known these people almost as long as I've been diving.

I can see both "sides" to this story. This is not a "right" or "wrong" situation ... it's about perspectives and choices.

I think the point of the discussion is that ... well ... this is a discussion board. Many people have offered different perspectives on how they'd deal with it. I think that's worth something ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[seaducer]

I think some of you are missing the point.

Peter's a very capable diver. I think he could hold trim using a rope harness and a couple of bleach bottles ... if that's what he wanted to do.

The issue isn't whether or not he's capable of diving in the alternate gear ... it's ...

a) The "rules" were one thing during training, and something different after training was completed ... it feels a bit like "bait and switch".

b) He's being told to "not worry about" showing exemplary skills during class ... I thought that the whole point of dive leadership was to define and demonstrate the parameters of good diving practices.

As I said ... I can see both sides of the gear issue. But I think that's really a symptom of the problem, rather than the problem itself in this case ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Well, most of that addresses points other than what I was reffering to. I was only commenting on the idea that a DM may not be comfortable enough in gear other than theirs in order to perform their duties. It was said in more than one post by more than one poster, I was not reffering soley or specifically to the OP.

As far as being told not to worry about trim etc, I can't comment on that as I wasn't there when that was said, it may be different than it reads. I will agree it reads poorly.

As for diving his own gear as a student and expected to dive different gear as a DM, I personally don't see a conflict there, in one the shop is accomodating a student, in the other they want to set a specific example. IMO if you have the gear they want, or they will supply the gear they want you to wear, I fail to see any issues? But that is my own opinion. Since DM's are chronically underpaid it really is something an individual needs to consider before "working" for anybody...

 

[tridacna]

Peter, I'm curious. Who is paying your DM insurance?

This was my turning point. The shop wanted me to pay this and assist for free. No more assisting from me.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

As a DM I made it a point to work with shops that looked out for the best interests of the student. I ended up leaving my original LDS when I felt this was no longer the case. I went to a shop (NAUI and YMCA taught here) and found a place I was comfortable with. The owner did not insist I use the shop brand gear but I have in the pool on occaision. In the pool I use my jacket bc and standard reg setup. In OW he was fine with me using not only my BPW and long hose but all staff is usually in doubles as well. I also work on occaision with a PADI instructor (WVMike on the board here) and he has no issues with me in BPW and long hose for checkouts. Now as an instructor myself(YMCA) I see the rationale for the jacket and standard reg in the pool and have no issue with it. I show my students BPW during the gear lecture and usually in the lasy or next to last pool session remind them it's what I'll be in for checkout dives. Most could care less. The few who do take note seem to be the ones who coincidentally seem to stay the most active after certification, buy their own gear shortly after, take more courses, and generally are better divers for it.
The term role model has been brought up. In my DM course it was pointed out that I'm a role model for students. Not for a brand or style of gear. I can use any bc and be in good trim. I've even ended up with a XL in one gear exchange and used it the rest of the night. I wear a medium. But to be a good role model I believe I should show my students that they need to do what's right for them as long as safety is not compromised. And my comfort in the water is paramount as any distraction is not an option if it can be avoided. I hate the pockets on my jacket bc. Most jackets I've tried leave something to be desired in this area. I'd rather reach in my thigh pocket or rear harness pouch and pull something I need out effortlessly than fish around contorting into uncomfortable positions to get a slate out. If a DM is not comfortable in his/her gear they are distracted by that and therefore may be a liability as opposed to an asset. Peter, I'd take Bob up on his offer. Keep a relationship with the LDS if you must but do not compromise your beliefs, standards, practices, and ethics.
BTW I have no problem diving a shop's gear IF they are providing it. I've got well over 12K in gear. I'm not going to buy more just to be a billboard. If I need it and the shop sells it I'll buy it there. If I don't then there should be some incentive for me to make a switch.

 

[RonFrank]

I dive a BP/W, long hose, blah... when diving dry.

I also dive a Zeagle Stiletto. It is my choice for travel.

My thought is they dive more the same, than differently. They are both Back Inflates, etc.

What is the big deal? RU somehow no longer capable of diving some other form of BC just because you now own a BP/W? Is having a snorkel going to somehow kill you? Or are you just looking for sympathy in likely the only spot you are going to get any, and that is among other BP/W divers.

If you want to train, and teach, get used to the idea that the shop may want you to wear THEIR gear. Why? This is what they sell, and this is what they want you to promote.

Your other option is to find another shop to work for. However good luck finding a profitable shop that does everything in a BP/W, and long hose. I'm just not sure they exist!

 

[Cacia]

You have to pay me a lot more to worry about anything.

It is good to be conscientious, but you sort of have to set boundaries with people. I find they accept those boundaries if I expect them to. Still, I urge people to sat flexible on snorkel issues., on general principle. This reminds me of the horse trainer in SoCal that almost had a stroke when one of my kids brought a hot pink curry comb to a Hunter-Jumper show. I acted like "look, you want my training check, my kid, you'll have to just get over it"

I really don't like the drag of a jacket...Halcyon Eclipse, just my preference.

I try and dive with people with pockets. (JB has the Zeagle)

looked out for the best interests of the student

In the scope of life, that might be "People will tell/ask you to do all kinds of things, decide for yourself." That is what I think new divers need to learn, from the beginning, to be safe.