Going into deco

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

Charlie99:
I don't see NDL as a sharp line, and don't overly obsess about the relatively fuzzy distinction between an NDL dive and one with a few minutes of deco obligation. I'm pushing things whether my computer says I have 4 minutes of NDL left or whether my computer says I have a few minutes of deco obligation. Anytime I'm heavily loaded (doesn't matter which side of "NDL" it's on) I'll have lots of gas and lots of time for a slow ascent and stops.
I agree completely with this. If you are flirting with the NDL you are not really any safer than the diver who crossed it by a few minutes. Both situations should have ample gas and stops on the way to the surface.

Your computer is just a tool. It is up to you to understand what the information it is giving you is based upon and decide for yourself how to proceed. For example when I do a deep stop, my computer is still adding to my decompression obligation. Conventional wisdom and recent deco theory say that deep stops are beneficial, but my Uwatec didn't get the memo. It doesn't mean that I don't do deep stops or that I should get rid of my computer. There are also occasions where I don't tell the computer that I've switched to O2. I know that once I switch I can generally surface in about half the time that the computer thinks that I can. These are just bits of information that help me shape my profile and make decisions about when to surface.
 
DandyDon:
Are you sure that was Deco Obligations or Safety Stop INdicated...?

Quite sure, Aladin Tec doesn't show, or require for that matter, safety stop.

Deco stops are on the other hand mandatory.
 
TSandM:
Okay . . . It's confession time. This came up over the weekend, where my husband did a repetitive dive and racked up what his Mosquito told him was 22 minutes of deco...
I dive an Aeris Atmos II... uses a relatively liberal algorithm (as do all the Pelagic computers).
We did a non-eventful dive with a few from our group on the Spiegel recently, and came up deco-free, while another in our group, diving the same time/plan, wearing a Suunto (I believe he had a Stinger), showed 10 minutes of accumulated deco time. (We were all diving the same mix profile).

I believe Suuntos are notoriously conservative (I seem to remember reading them topping out in an algorithm comparison in one of the trade rags).

Of course, this is NOT a recommendation to ignore the alert, rather just one point of reference...
 
As I am reading these posts I am more and more convinced of the possible negative consequences of relying 100% on a computer to calculate your dive profiles. We are litterally placing our lives in the hands of a piece of equipment whose inner workings (software) are not even understood by most people. I am struck by the fact that discussions revolving around computers almost invariably lead to a "I trust my computer but I wouldn't trust another makers computer" without even understanding what the various deco models even do. To be honest, it scares the crap out of me that I used to blindly follow the advice of my computer (mostly Suuntos) when I didn't even know what a Reduced Gradient Bubble Model even was. I always felt that the more conservative computer was better and safer, but that usually ended up in an argument about how Suunto's were too conservative etc. Again, my impression on reading most of these posts is that the average diver just buys a computer that suits their level of conservatism and even though they might not understand it, they are happy with it and just follow the computer prompts. This scares the bejezzus out of me as I have some pretty fancy equipment in my business that regularly breaks down for want of a 3$ part. I for one do not want to trust my life to a piece of equipment with parts made by the lowest bidder and assembled by somebody who will never use it. Bob, like you, the more I learn about Deco, the more Ratio Deco done by me before a dive and then adjusted if necessary by me with my bottom timer/depth gauge and back up bottom time/depth gauge makes me feel safer.

As far as somebody telling somebody else not to do deco without the proper training, my comment to this is that there is no such thing as a non deco dive. Every dive makes bubbles and every dive involves decompression. How is one minute of deco that much different from 1 minute short of the "NDL" time? There are no black and whites here, just various shades of grey. If you are going to use a computer then I think it behooves you to learn how to interpret what your computer is saying to you at all times. It scares me that there are things going on inside the software that we are only trying to guess after the fact are happening for a particular reason. Yes, these software guys are smart, but they are not the ones taking a series of schedule 6's in the chamber after things didn't work out right. Just my 2 cents here and not intended to be critical of anyone in particular. I am taking a vacation with a lot of diving over the next 10 days and I plan on running a Vytec in computer mode at the same time as I do manual minimum deco calculations and see what transpires after several days. Should be interesting.
 
i go into deco all the time. the first thing my computer tells me is go to 10 feet for 3 mins. if i take my time comming up, the hang time goes up. when the hang time gets to 10 min, the depth goes to 20 feet for my first stop. the time allways is close to the tables.

singlescott
 
Good post, but I must respond to this:

Bismark:
We are litterally placing our lives in the hands of a piece of equipment whose inner workings (software) are not even understood by most people.

Without computers, those same "most people" you speak of would simply be in the hands of something else they don't understand the 'inner workings' of (printed table algorithms).

Sure, treating a realistic dive as if it were square (basic table methodology) is more conservative than a computer's approach, but in either case we're talking about - as you say - shades of gray.
 
Great post Bismark, but some of use do know what table and aglorythm our computers use. That is why I like my little, cheep Oceanic DataMax Sport. I also run a Sherwood ProFile because it runs the same algorythm.

If you really want to be conservitive, dive the HUGI tables. You will never be able to have an OOA.
 
Blackwood:
Good post, but I must respond to this:



Without computers, those same "most people" you speak of would simply be in the hands of something else they don't understand the 'inner workings' of (printed table algorithms).

Sure, treating a realistic dive as if it were square (basic table methodology) is more conservative than a computer's approach, but in either case we're talking about - as you say - shades of gray.
I agree. I've seen the same "most people" improperly using tables or surfacing from an unplanned dive, using the tables, and going "oops, shouldn't have done that."
 
NWGratefulDiver:
holding your hand up with pinkie finger extended (ASL sign for D)

Uh...Bob.....that's an "I." An ASL "D" has the index finger extended with the other three fingers forming a circle with the thumb.
 
I have never planned to go into deco and I have never been in deco. I know my Oceanic computers are fairly liberal and don't plan to push them. If I ever decide that diving with is ceiling is what I would like to do next, I'll be looking for more training.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

Back
Top Bottom