Ginnie Springs diver missing - Florida

[dmaziuk]

... It seems the diving community might want to consider demanding that the various groups and agencies that they pay dues to require an investigation ...

Yes, precisely, quid pro quo: I'm not paying dues to anyone so I can demand whatever I want... from nobody.

 

[Manatee Diver]

Which of those 5 agencies should be responsible for investigating my death and producing a report?

I don't think anyone is asking for a formal investigation. Simply that the statement of facts collected by the IUCRR, which handles most cave recoveries, release them.

 

[boulderjohn]

I don't think anyone is asking for a formal investigation. Simply that the statement of facts collected by the IUCRR, which handles most cave recoveries, release them.

My reading comprehension skills must be falling off. I could have sworn the quote below calls for the "various groups and agencies that they pay dues to require an investigation or at least disclosure...." Maybe I just want to identify these various groups and agencies we are paying dues to who will be doing this demanding.

It seems the diving community might want to consider demanding that the various groups and agencies that they pay dues to require an investigation or at least disclosure of some of the things occurring during these incidents and informing their members so they can make informed decisions about their diving, etc.

 

[Manatee Diver]

My reading comprehension skills must be falling off. I could have sworn the quote below calls for the "various groups and agencies that they pay dues to require an investigation or at least disclosure...." Maybe I just want to identify these various groups and agencies we are paying dues to who will be doing this demanding.

That's what I get for scanning through the thread on a cellphone.

I don't mind if the groups want to do accident analysis. In fact, there was a thread asking just what does the NSS-CDS does for the cave community at large. So if they want to get involved that wouldn't be bad. But the first step is to get the factual data out there, so people can do the analysis if they want. Because what good is accident analysis if people can't look at the factual data and see where you are coming from.

 

[boulderjohn]

That's what I get for scanning through the thread on a cellphone.

I don't mind if the groups want to do accident analysis. In fact, there was a thread asking just what does the NSS-CDS does for the cave community at large. So if they want to get involved that wouldn't be bad. But the first step is to get the factual data out there, so people can do the analysis if they want. Because what good is accident analysis if people can't look at the factual data and see where you are coming from.

The NSS-CDS contributes cave diving incident reports that are published in the NSS publication American Caving Accidents. Are you calling for something larger than that?

 

[DanBMW]

You bring up some good points and this article sort of addresses them but misses the mark a bit in why certain agencies have more "transparency", IMO. Having been in the military where a portion of my job was to investigate parachuting accidents, and now being a police officer whose job is, at least in part, to investigate officer involved shootings, uses of force, major accidents, etc.

Unfortunately, In 30+ years of skydiving, I cannot recall ever reading a military account of a parachute/skydiving incident except to say that it happened and will be investigated. I don't think the analysis is shared with the public.

 

[KevinNM]

Yup I’ve seen some vague discussion of mff deaths in training on public sites, but as far as I know they are never published.

There are some very detailed reports of aircraft mishaps, like the midair off Japan (though there were supported accusations that that was a whitewash of senior MC leadership) and the propeller failure and subsequent aircraft mid-air break up of that C130 in the US.

 

[Kay Dee]

That is F"n awesome! And really nails the point.

It sure was and it SURE does! Great training video!!

Now, what was that serpoint? (Just joking.)

 

[DiveProKoko]

Unfortunately, In 30+ years of skydiving, I cannot recall ever reading a military account of a parachute/skydiving incident except to say that it happened and will be investigated. I don't think the analysis is shared with the public.

Correct. I was referring to "transparency" within the community in which the accidents occur. We share the results of military parachuting accident investigations within the military branches to learn from them and, if necessary, change procedures or safety features. I believe the FAA investigates civilian parachuting accidents and shares that with agencies like the USPA, etc. Check me if I'm wrong, but there is not an agency that investigates the cause of most SCUBA accidents and releases detailed data related to those accidents for improvement of the sport, etc.

 

[DiveProKoko]

Which of those 5 agencies should be responsible for investigating my death and producing a report?

Good question. A better one would be why is there an immediate investigation into parachuting accidents as the FAA descends on the scene, conducts a through investigation then issues detailed reports on the conditions of the jump, the rigging of the jumper, what failed and why, but there is pretty much ZERO investigation into why a person dies during a dive? Both sports are inherently dangerous. We even call dive gear "life saving equipment", and rightly so.

I don't ponder these questions with the end game of "oversight" or to hold people accountable for others' poor choices, etc. God knows I support personal accountability pretty much without exception. However, there are lessons to be learned here that could save the lives of others, but some of that info is held really close to the vest...or not obtained at all. When you have an agency like DAN (not picking on them, just an example) raking in about $12 million per year, it seems they may have the capital and clout to advocate for something that better informs divers about accidents and what caused them besides the occasional aforementioned diving accident article in their complimentary magazine.