Giant sea bass: underwater size estimates and topside weights

[drbill]

In another thread long time SoCal diver Dr. Sam Miller brought up the subject of weight estimates for giant sea bass observed by divers underwater and their actual weights when measured topside. Sam is definitely correct in that divers probably often over estimate the size of these rather monstrous fish (just like anglers topside do for the "one that got away").

I thought I'd post a few pictures from the early years when these magnificent fish were the target of anglers and later spearfishers. All these photos are courtesy of the Catalina Island Museum. Divers may be surprised at the weights listed for them after being weighed in on the Tuna Club scales here in Avalon. Personally, I hope we never see these fish topside like this again. They were exploited commercially starting back in the 1880s and possibly earlier, by sport anglers in the latter 1800s and 1900s and by spearos mostly after World War II.

weight not given



270 lbs



242 lbs



416 lbs



322 and 196 lbs



174, 210 and 190 lbs



310 and 352 lbs

 

[drbill]

Whoops, these images are too small to see most of the weights and the originals are too large to post so I'll add the weights above. Keep in mind that people back in the 1890s were generally significantly shorter than today (well, except for my great grandfather... he was a giant!).

 

[fisheater]

Thanks, Dr. Bill.

Those old photos provide some very important and moving baseline data of what used to be and what things "should" be like.


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- Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[gsk3]

Thanks Dr. Bill. That'll be useful if we ever manage to spot one of the guys. It seems the more people topside talk about how many they saw, the less likely we are to see them!

 

[bperc]

Dr. Bill, thanks for the useful information and photos of these great fish.

My daughter came over with my son and I, in August 2010, for her first trip to Catalina and we were lucky enough to see three GSB on our dives. You should have seen her eyes when that first GSB swam in behind me as I was getting ready to take her picture at the Cousteau plaque. It was priceless.

 

[drbill]

Decided to post larger sized images so the weights, etc. were more readable. It truly is interesting to see these historical images. I did a little research to find out what the average height of a US male was in 1890 and today. I was surprised that the difference was only about 3-4". In 1890 the average was 5' 6" and today it is 5' 9 1/2".

 

[Sam Miller III]

Note;

The biggest fish in the series was 416 pounds hung next to the little woman.

A 400 pound fish is one huge fish. I can't imagine what a 600 pound fish would look like as compaired to a 400 pound fish.

In the 1950-60s John Fitch was very visable and assessable to the diving world and often appeared at varrious functions. I and others of that era of the past had the opportunity to have many indept conversations with him about the BSB. At one event he stated a 300 pound BSB (aka GSB) required 90 plus years to attain that weight.

As 300 pounds 90 year as a baseline, with a straight line growth pattern a 600 pound fish would be 180 years old, unless they had three Big Macs every day which is doubtful. Therefore we may make an assumption that 600 pound GSB is ONE big fish and one OLD fish, one RARE fish and one LUCKY fish to have survived the pole fishermen and the Spearfishermen for 180 years.

So Dr Bill don't share the location of the 600 pound GSB with any one!

SDM

 

[divin dirty]

thanks so much for sharing the historical pics dr bill!! gotta love the history of both you and sam miller bring to the table!!! thanks again you guys!!!!

 

[drbill]

Reports of the 800 lb fish recorded historically were from Mexican waters, with 600 pounders appearing to be the maximum size here in SoCal. These data came from the late 1800s and early 1900s, so many of the largest fish were probably gone by the 1950s due to intensive commercial exploitation and , most likely to a lesser degree, the recreational take.

I know Sam doubts the 600 pound estimates for the two largest fish reported in our waters. I don't blame him. They do come from both divers and anglers who have seen the two (one?) beasts. As one can tell from the photos, a 400 lb fish is huge. Of course the "little lady" in the image may only be 100 lbs herself. I was filming a large GSB a few years ago with a few other divers. I didn't make any estimate of its weight because I was focused on filming details of the body up close. Others observing it next to me said that it exceeded the length of my body (6' 1") with my fins extended. they thought it was 600 lbs. I relocated that fish a few days later (based on unique body "markings") and determined it was no bigger than 400 lbs.

 

[drbill]

thanks so much for sharing the historical pics dr bill!! gotta love the history of both you and sam miller bring to the table!!! thanks again you guys!!!!

I certainly bow to Sam's more extensive knowledge of these fish during the period they were still being hunted and brought topside. That is information that may well be lost as the pioneer divers of the 50s and 60s go off to the (hopefully) warmer waters in the sky. I hope I never have the experience of seeing one that was taken and hanging on a scale though. It would sadden me.