German woman dies diving Cozumel

[Garrobo]

I've been on trips to Coz several times and of course haven't dealt with ALL the dive shops there but the ones I've dove with were run professionally and safely. My point of view is that if the woman had so few dives it was her responsibility to make sure the operator, at least, was made aware of the situation. As far as the guide, most of them don't speak English well enough, let alone a German speaking English, to understand what you have to say anyway. Too many people think that it is the responsibility of everyone else except themselves to keep themselves safe when diving. It's a dangerous sport folks. Deal with it.

 

[openmindOW]

I am disturbed by the statement "She had about 18 dives and had a camera with her."

Folks, I didn't start diving with a camera until I had at least 50 dives. I can honestly tell you that while having a camera is great, it is a distraction.

That's a good point, Trish. Some dive shops very much like to sell cameras to recreational divers. They're a high-end item.

 

[DandyDon]

A few suggestions if I may...

I am disturbed by the statement "She had about 18 dives and had a camera with her."

Folks, I didn't start diving with a camera until I had at least 50 dives. I can honestly tell you that while having a camera is great, it is a distraction. At 18 dives, you're still getting your bouyancy under control, learning when a "strange noise or sensation" isn't anything to worry about, etc.

In my day, the dive ops wouldn't let you dive with a camera unless you could show your experience, either by the logbook or by doing the first dive without a camera to show you were OK underwater. These days, it seems like everybody shows up with a digital for their first open water dive - and the dive ops don't object.

Now I realise we don't have all the info here, but I'm pretty sure this poor lady started to get into trouble (that maybe she could have gotten out of) long before everything started to "go South". But how would she have realised that if she was busy taking fish photos?

A very sad situation.

Trish

I don't particularly like the idea of a newbie carrying a camera and I didn't until well over 50 dives on my own call. I know that it's done a lot, but I don't suggest it for reasons similar to your suggestions.

I don't think the dive operator has any business making calls like that tho. We have a self regulating sport & industry to a large extent and if the dive has a C-card, s/he is qualified to dive - with depth limits suggested to the diver but not enforced by any policing department. And I don't see any evidence that the camera had anything to do with the accident really, but then I don't see any evidence at all here.

Very sorry to hear about this German woman's death. Condolences to her family and friends.

I know that it will probably take a while for us to know all the facts about the circumstances involved in this particular case, but I have to say that I was more than a little disappointed with the attitude of the Dive centres and dive guides in Cozumel when we went there in December 2008. We were using a supposedly PADI 5-star Dive centre attached to a resort (I'll name them only if the mods allow me) but the offhand attitude of almost all the staff shocked me. There was never a proper dive briefing, they were not even sure who was going in which boat (for example, they had the wife and I listed on separate boats even though we pointed out twice on the day and during the dive that we were together) and seemed to be baffled why so-and-so was or was not there. A boat with 16 to 18 divers consisted of one guide, one 'captain' and one non-diving crew member. Without being rude, the person doing the last job on our boat was "simple" in the extreme and seemed to have no concept of safety etc.

But the real problem was the dive guide who jumped into the water first, did not even wait to see if the rest of us had followed and simply kept going down and away. On one occasion, no less than 6 of us had to abort a dive and get back into the boat because of his carelessness. We later put in an official complaint to PADI against the dive centre, including a personal complaint against the guide.

I am not saying that this German woman's death had anything to do with crew carelessness, but I frankly would not be surprised if it turns out that it did.

I don't recognize a direct connection to this accident so you might want to open a thread in the Cozumel forum if you want to discuss your experiences. Coz DMs are supposed to be dive guides tho, not instructors nor babysitters. Park rules do require a maximum of eight divers per DM so if you are sure you had more divers per DM, you can mention the Operator by name there if you wish. It does sound like you may have experienced some shortcomings with dive boat assignments, but beyond general oversight and dive leadership - it's up to the C-card holder to know how to dive, hire extra instruction if needed, or hire a private DM if desired. With drift diving common to Coz, I'd say it's standard for the DM to take a "see you on the bottom" attitude and get down as fast as possible to keep the group together in the current.

One captain plus one DM per eight divers is all that is required on boats there. If you had an extra deck hand to assist, that was actually a bonus in staffing. We had one on a trip to Belize once who was a problem and I would have felt safer without him, but that's another story. Getting off of the boat, diving in groups of eight, and getting on the boat are diver responsibilities and additional training can be had by arrangement.

Oh, we generally do not get information other than offered here by other divers with first hand info maybe.

Hi, Scuba D. Sorry about your witnessing that event.

[Novice Diver] Is it possible she narc'd at such a depth? [/Novice Diver]

At 70 ft? I kinda doubt it. Maybe to some extent, but not likely much.

If I am reading this correctly, the buddy/instructor was not with the lady when the situation occurred? Then where was her buddy?

I don't know that answer for sure, but if one is asked to dive with the leading DM as assigned buddy, it really falls upon that diver to stay close to that DM. The camera might have distracted from this need some perhaps?

I've been on trips to Coz several times and of course haven't dealt with ALL the dive shops there but the ones I've dove with were run professionally and safely. My point of view is that if the woman had so few dives it was her responsibility to make sure the operator, at least, was made aware of the situation. As far as the guide, most of them don't speak English well enough, let alone a German speaking English, to understand what you have to say anyway. Too many people think that it is the responsibility of everyone else except themselves to keep themselves safe when diving. It's a dangerous sport folks. Deal with it.

Yeah, and for newbies it is really a good plan to hire private DMs for a day or two. It's common for travelers to shop resort & packages by star ratings & dollars so expecting clean rooms and resorts is reasonable but the emphasis seems to be with meeting our budgets. Dive Op problems on Coz are rare tho as competition is so intense there. Again, learn before you go or make arrangements to pay for help.

 

[1_T_Submariner]

I have seen an op strongly suggest a new diver not carry their camera until they have their buoyancy under control. She had been trying to take a picture at 25'(ish) and ended up on the surface.
It was in Roatan and on the 1st morning dives on the afternoon dives the DM worked with the new diver on buoyancy infact most of the next few days they worked on buoyancy.

A good instructor or DM could have been a great help in this case (no one is ever sure about prevention).

 

[redacted]

If I am reading this correctly, the buddy/instructor was not with the lady when the situation occurred? Then where was her buddy?

The "instructor/buddy" was also the dive guide. He was surely in the front of the group doing his primary job of guiding the group. If someone is going to "buddy" with the guide, they need to stay with him or they have no buddy.

 

[dmoore19]

That's a good point, Trish. Some dive shops very much like to sell cameras to recreational divers. They're a high-end item.

AhHa, problem solved, question answered. It's the LDS's fault for selling her a camera. Who knew it would be that simple?

 

[bsee65]

Ability of a diver to use a camera has to be a case by case thing. Clearly, a diver who suddenly pops to the surface from 25' is in danger of physical harm and needs more skill. On the other hand, there's absolutely no indication that there's anything camera related involved in this incident.

If the diver were taking a pic and became separated dfrom her buddy, that might be an issue. Of course, buddy proximity and attention is a two way street and the one who wandered away is just as much at fault. When that buddy is a paid dive professional, more so.

If you are responsible for leading a dive, then you may have a hard time performing your duties as a buddy. Don't take on the added responsibility if you can't perform. A diver going beyond their skill level with an instructor as a buddy may feel more at ease. What happens to that diver's state of mind when their buddy is off on some other responsibility? If you're a dive pro and have to take on a buddy, you had better understand their skill level. If you can't actually be a buddy, don't commit to be one for a potentially needy inexperienced diver. How can a dive pro try to lead while paying attention to a buddy who will be stopping to shoot pics? How can a diver shooting pics keep track of her DM buddy when he is trying to lead?

The idea that the customer should become wholly responsible for staying with her assigned DM buddy as he leads is ludicrous to me. I'm not paying to dive and hang on the coattails of the DM like an accessory.

We do have a number of typical conditions and discussion issues here that will all be touched at some level:
1. high-volume resort DM taking divers beyond training
2. diver choosing to go to an environment beyond training levels
3. buddy separation / rent-a-buddy / buddy skills
4. reliance on a dive pro for safety
5. camera use / task loading
6. inexperienced diver doesn't know what she doesn't know
7. diver in unfamiliar conditions and gear with bouyancy issues
8. possibility that some unrelated medical issue is a root cause
9. lack of complete fact set on the incident

 

[sierra23]

I am always very saddened by deaths in the diving industry. I can't imagine how her family is dealing with it all. Yes, Epinephelus is on the right track. Possibly, she just happened to be in the water when she had a serious medical issue. How so very SAD. Divers requirer some assistance from time to time - having a trusting buddy is so important.

 

[lbussell]

I realize that the posts to this accident were all made last week, but I just wanted to put my opinion down here: I was in Cozumel for a week, starting the day after the drowning. Just as a small bit of background, I used the same dive shop there for my 7th-15th dives ever. I found them to be very professional, and safety oriented. On the 9 dives that I did with them there were never more than 6 customers. We always had a thorough dive briefing, and were assigned dive buddies. There were no communication issues with the staff. I noticed that the staff there are indeed multi-lingual (Spanish, English, French, German).

As far as my part, I am a confident, but careful new diver. I always stayed close to the dive master and/or buddy at all times. I frequently checked my gauges, and ran mental mental drills such as "If I need air how quickly could I grab that diver's alt. reg?" I feel very comfortable in the water, and look forward to the next trip.

 

[diver 85]

I realize that the posts to this accident were all made last week, but I just wanted to put my opinion down here: I was in Cozumel for a week, starting the day after the drowning. Just as a small bit of background, I used the same dive shop there for my 7th-15th dives ever. I found them to be very professional, and safety oriented. On the 9 dives that I did with them there were never more than 6 customers. We always had a thorough dive briefing, and were assigned dive buddies. There were no communication issues with the staff. I noticed that the staff there are indeed multi-lingual (Spanish, English, French, German).

As far as my part, I am a confident, but careful new diver. I always stayed close to the dive master and/or buddy at all times. I frequently checked my gauges, and mental mental drills such as "If I need air how quickly could I grab that diver's alt. reg?" I feel very comfortable in the water, and look forward to the next trip.

Maybe the dive shop learned A LOT of lessons overnight & made some BIG changes FAST!!........-----a prudent person(s) would IMO.......

just sayin'......