Geezer Gas

[Akimbo]

What I've learned on this thread. It's all in my head.....

Not necessarily. What you have learned is science hasn’t been able to verify the antidotal indications across a statistically significant portion of the population. Note the statement “appears not to be justified” is NOT the same as stating it as a proven scientific fact. There’s a lot we don’t understand yet.

Besides, does it really matter? There’s a lot more good reasons to choose Nitrox than reducing fatigue.

You might find this article interesting:
Air, Nitrox and Fatigue – Alert Diver Magazine

The belief that Nitrox reduces fatigue has been around a long time and appears not to be justified. I suspect that this is the origin of the comment.

 

[tursiops]

Not necessarily. What you have learned is science hasn’t been able to verify the antidotal indications across a statistically significant portion of the population. Note the statement “appears not to be justified” is NOT the same as stating it as a proven scientific fact. There’s a lot we don’t understand yet.

Besides, does it really matter? There’s a lot more good reasons to choose Nitrox than reducing fatigue.

Yeah, the same statement "appears not to be justified" also could be written "has not been proved or disproved."
The two (I think) studies that looked at this were terribile science, pretty much irrelevant to the "it keeps me from getting tired out on a long series of dives" proposition.
It would be nice to know the "truth" but until then, if it seems to help, fine, and it certainly doesn't hurt.

 

[Akimbo]

Yeah, the same statement "appears not to be justified" also could be written "has not been proved or disproved."...

I chose that wording because it reflects my impression from the linked article in DAN’s Alert Diver Magazine. It also suited the totally unsubstantiated “geezer gas” slur since the reports of reduced fatigue don’t appear to be limited to any age group.

 

[tursiops]

I was disappointed in the AD article....it rehashed old stuff, backed away from really critiquing it, and closed with maybe, maybe not.

 

[Storker]

“geezer gas” slur

"Slur"?

Although it hurts a little to admit, I'm very much aware that the 50+ year old body I inhabit these days isn't as capable as the half as old body I inhabited a quarter of a century ago. It's a fact, and joking about it (even using what you call a "slur") helps me to cope with that fact.

 

[Akimbo]

"Slur"?...

I’m not an especially sensitive guy but it didn’t sound like the statement in the OP (Original Post) was crafted to be complimentary or even useful. It would be fine if reports of reduced fatigue were limited to old farts like me, but they’re not.

We all know the primary advantages of Nitrox aren’t related to age or physical condition. It sounds more like someone selling a course who is more interested in inflating their perception of themselves while demonstrating their limited knowledge of salesmanship and Nitrox.

 

[MaxBottomtime]

What I've learned on this thread. It's all in my head.....

Silly me. I thought I felt better diving nitrox based on real world experience until the keyboard commando's told me that I don't. Who am I to argue - they have equations.
In the future, I will remember to ignore my first hand experiences and ask that the SB scientist's how I feel after my dives. They can get out their slide rules and derive my feeling based on their pie charts and such.

Or you can get out your nitrox textbook/dvd. You may have skipped over the part where they mention the placebo effect. It's not just from keyboard commandos.

 

[NAM001]

I can only accept that you are correct. Unless anyone else has the knowlwdge of the funcitional workings of of deco, it leaves most with a limited but usefull basic background of deco. From your aspect i can possible see the equality of equal and saturated. Its a time issue i guess that the rec world will never see, and there fore will use didfferent analogies to understand the basics of it. In the eyes of rec divers we only are concerned with the fastest tissue. the next fastest is in the deco world that rec does not do (by design) and the slowest tissues are in the saturated diver world. That doesnt negate the significance of the slow tissues in deco but for gas loading (the rec divers concern) while submerges, and gas unloading the SI concern,, first tissue signals ndl and the dive is now over till enough SI is done. So tissue 2-16 is not in the rec world. For the majority of divers deco study ends with the coke bottle example. They are told that to avoid becoming a bottle of coke do not exceed ndl. End of training. Unfortunately for most including me when there is some one whose purpose in life os to do deco. 99% are unable to follow the science to that degree. Heck as little as i do deco I am doing good to remember what gradient factors are. I do posess enough knowledge to rudimantally explain to many who are curious about deco. For exalmple when you use equillibrium and saaturation in the short term I see going to a depth and on gassing till presures equalize. then go deeper and unballancing the equilibrium and ongassing again. And when you you can change the pressure deltand no mor ongassing happens you are saturated. For long term divers saturation and equalibrium could very well be the same because of the long term time factors negating any aspects of some tissues continuing to ongass as p[robably would be the case in short duratin diving (AKA rec diving).

Equilibrium was used to describe saturation in my training as a saturation diver. What’s the difference?

It is a common misconception that sat divers are only concerned with the slowest tissues. That is correct on final decompression but we also have excursion limits above and below our holding depth where the faster tissues rule.

 

[Akimbo]

KWS

I actually meant the question sincerely, meaning there may be variations in current recreation diving terminology. Keep in mind that saturation divers are surface-supplied divers long before getting in the bell and subject to the same fixation on fast tissues as recreational divers, but that doesn’t mean we use the same buzzwords.

 

[Bob DBF]

Or you can get out your nitrox textbook/dvd. You may have skipped over the part where they mention the placebo effect. It's not just from keyboard commandos.

Well if the studies were more realistic they might show whether it was placebo effect or not. In the last study, they found some subjects felt better but the study attributed it to less sub clinical DCS rather than fatigue. In my own case, I feel better regardless of the reason, it seems to be a distinction without a difference.

I believe the materials I read were printed off of the first study which was done in a chamber using one tank and some exercise then asking the subjects how they felt. Not science at it's best.


Bob