Gear set up

[TheYellowSubmarine]

To be fair, I'm not sure of any other agency that offers a direct equivalent to fundies. It's a great concept. Having some pre-training for tech is likely to save some people a lot of time, money and disappointment - should they turn up for a tech course and not have their basic skills at a sufficient level of refinement.

I've never done a GUE course... but I have turned people away from tech courses... and I have seen the quality of fundies trained divers. Far from being a DIR zealot, I'd still recommend these as a good approach to starting technical training.

I've thought about drafting my own version of fundies as a distinctive course, but if it wasn't generalised to represent an entire agency, then it has little value. I just do a in-water assessment now - if they don't meet standards they don't go forwards in training. At best, they'll get an 'Intro to tech'... or option to return at another time.

I did this in the Philippines:
Triton Technical Tech Diving Philippinest's like a TDI version of Fundies.
Mike Taylor, who wrote the course was a protégée of sorts of John Bennett.

From what I understand some of the changes to the Fundies course were made when some GUE instructors either took the course or were discussing it with Mike (sometime around 2004/2005).

 

[Tortuga68]

I dove a 50lbs singles/doubles wing on singles (even big steel singles) for my first 30 or so dives. Had some uncontrolled ascents. Switching to a properly sized and shaped wing immediately fixed the problem.

I've seen other people also have trouble with oversized wings. Sometimes the result ain't pretty

IMO there's no such thing as a "singles/doubles" wing... If the OP was planning to use his wing with a single tank, then I'm sure he would have problems. The wing would be very difficult to vent, which is probably what caused your ascent issues

OTOH I've done more than 50 deco dives using a 94# OMS wing - with double AL80s and a shorty wetsuit, and dive with people who have done 100s or 1000s of deco dives with the same gear. I've never had any problem with holding a stop or uncontrolled ascents, and to the best of my knowledge neither have any of the other people - including AN/DP students doing their first dives in doubles using rental gear

I also have a 45# horseshoe doubles wing and a 40# Halcyon Evolve doughnut wing; the amount of lift is fine for double AL80s but I much prefer the OMS wing for open water, non-penetration dives, even though it has way more lift than required, it is more stable & the airshift from side to side is barely noticeable, unlike the other wings

I did however put shorter inflater hoses on it

 

[DevonDiver]

fftopic:

Weird choice of reg configuration on the left hand doubles... really obstructs the valves for shut-down.

Do you know why the owner didn't orientate the 1st stages to project inwards?

:focus:

 

[Tortuga68]

Do you know why the owner didn't orientate the 1st stages to project inwards?

Short answer is I don't know; I've never asked - mine are on the right with the Tek3s so it's not an issue for me. However... the left post hose routing is better that way with FSTs - the HP and LP hoses come off in the right directions. But the right post hose routing is the same either way - I guess you could argue that it obstructs the isolator when mounted inwards?

OTOH the regs are wider the way they are, and perhaps more prone to being damaged, although since they're OW rigs not much of an issue. I've never used that set of doubles, but when I do my shutdowns I tend to have my palm facing the end of the valve and manipulate it with my fingers, so I don't think the reg would get in the way during a 'normal' shutdown or valve drill for me... of ocurse in an actual emergency that could be a different story

I have another set of doubles with FSRs and mounted them like this:

 

[DevonDiver]

Short answer is I don't know; I've never asked - mine are on the right with the Tek3s so it's not an issue for me. However... the left post hose routing is better that way with FSTs - the HP and LP hoses come off in the right directions.

Yeah, I have some FSRs for rental/spare. I mount them like yours.

But the right post hose routing is the same either way - I guess you could argue that it obstructs the isolator when mounted inwards?

I find it helps guide my hand onto the isolator. A little more protected that way also. When mounted 'pointing out', I'd find them disruptive. Possibly more risk of tangle also, when in wrecks.

OTOH the regs are wider the way they are, and perhaps more prone to being damaged, although since they're OW rigs not much of an issue. I've never used that set of doubles, but when I do my shutdowns I tend to have my palm facing the end of the valve and manipulate it with my fingers, so I don't think the reg would get in the way during a 'normal' shutdown or valve drill for me... of ocurse in an actual emergency that could be a different story

Yeah... for me, it's something that could cause a delay under stress. I don't think that having the stages 'outwards' would prevent a shut-down; just that it could cause some confusion..and add seconds onto a time-critical procedure.

 

[Centrals]

Short answer is I don't know; I've never asked -

Unless I know the diver well otherwise I probably will never ask.
However, I might casually rasie the question after the dive and discuss about it.

 

[Tortuga68]

I would say I know him well enough to ask... I would also say that he's done more valve shutdowns than most people have had hot dinners, so it obviously works for him

I assume the hose routing was the primary reason, it's the same port orientation as my & Andy's FSRs but the body of the FST goes the other way, so...

Not much else happening in this thread, so here's another pic!

 

[DevonDiver]

Stick to your choice and find an instructor that is like-minded.

Probably going to be hard to find a technical-level instructor who doesn't have a personal opinion or bias about equipment configuration. Same is true for being 'like-minded'. Should a tech instructor really be 'like-minded' with a novice diver? What does that really say?

Training should dictate kit. Kit shouldn't dictate training.

Training is the foundation of everything. If the foundations are weak, then all future diving and progress will be under-mined.

Find the best possible instructor that you can. Get the best training that you can. Absorb their input, as it'll be the bedrock for everything you subsequently do. There's many factors that should influence your choice of technical instructor - their willingness to pander to uninformed equipment selection certainly shouldn't be one of them.

I've always been driven to seek out the best...and to dive with them. Developing as a technical diver is about evolving, learning, absorbing information and then using that knowledge to decide for yourself what is best. I've had some great technical instructors and mentors, who dive at an 'elite' level. Each had their own views, preferences, likes and dislikes. Each could articulate and justify why they had that position. That is what is important. Each had an impact on my own views, but none tried to brain-wash me - for which I respect them and am thankful.

You got kit that may, or may not, be ideal. Either way, don't let that kit distract you from becoming the best diver that you can be. On the scale of investment and commitment needed for technical diving, the cost of a wing is just a drop in the ocean. Don't let it become something that dictates everything else - quite simply, it isn't a critical factor in the long run.

For the record: I turned up for my first tech course with a double-bladder, bungeed wing - with 'comfort' harness and all the trimmings. My instructor was Mark Powell. As we discussed my configuration (what configuration?... I'd bought it as a package...and it looked 'cool') he explained and justified his perspective on it. It all made sense... and he amply demonstrated his views when conducting in-water skills. I went home from that course very frustrated with my gear. The 'comfort' harness was sold within 2 weeks. I bought a single-bladder, non-bungeed, wing at the next opportunity. All the 'trimmings' went into the cupboard under the stairs and never saw light of day again. I'm glad I didn't seek out a 'like-minded' instructor - because that experience served to shape my future development.

 

[Centrals]

Probably going to be hard to find a technical-level instructor who doesn't have a personal opinion or bias about equipment configuration. Same is true for being 'like-minded'. Should a tech instructor really be 'like-minded' with a novice diver? What does that really say?

Training should dictate kit. Kit shouldn't dictate training.

Training is the foundation of everything. If the foundations are weak, then all future diving and progress will be under-mined.

Find the best possible instructor that you can. Get the best training that you can. Absorb their input, as it'll be the bedrock for everything you subsequently do.

You got kit that may, or may not, be ideal. Either way, don't let that kit distract you from becoming the best diver that you can be. On the scale of investment and commitment needed for technical diving, the cost of a wing is just a drop in the ocean. Don't let it become something that dictates everything else - quite simply, it isn't a critical factor in the long run.

I am pretty sure your last paragraph might not go down very well in certain camp!!
Actually you probably won't be allowed to start the course!!

 

[DevonDiver]

I am pretty sure your last paragraph might not go down very well in certain camp!!
Actually you probably won't be allowed to start the course!!

Better to turn up with the 'wrong' kit and learn something..... or not turn up at all?