Gases

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boogeywoogey

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Location
Curacao, Netherlands Antilles
Can I ask a question for deco divers that dive within air limits (70m),,,

1. What gases do you take for travel, back and deco?

Tell me the variations of the diving because my question is very open.

I am very very intersted to hear experiences.

boogey
 
Are you interested in what people do in practice or what the best gasses are for a given dive?

I would think for divers who are diving within those limits you'll see a lot of Normoxic Trimix, no travel gas and stages of 50% and O2 for deco.

Maybe if you tell us a bit more about the reason you're asking we can give you more specific answers.

R..
 
I don't consider 70m as being in air limits, at least not for me. At 210ish feet I'd use 15/55 (or something close), no travel gas, 50% and O2 for decompression. exceptions to this are if it's in a cave with a long shallow entry I'll use a travel gas to get to the deep section (most likely my 50%) or long bottom times in a cave where staging the bottles is practical I might be tempted to add a third decompression mix (for the volume and a deeper first switch).
 
boogeywoogey:
Can I ask a question for deco divers that dive within air limits (70m),,,
Several religions are in this and there is no right or wrong answer for all. Most people and things I have read believe that max PPO for diving is 1.4 and 1.6 while in deco. From where I sit, max depth for air is 186fsw or 56.6msw. Some agencys consider any depth greater than 100fsw is a bad idea (due to PPN2) even though most RDPs go to 130fsw. So in short the term air limits and be a bit of a mis-nomer... :D
 
There are formulas to find the "best mix" for a certain depth. You then make your decisions based on how many different mixes you want to carry, your deco plan & several other things. It is not as simple as most people think it is. Different people have different things that they consider most important for them. Also, your gas needs to "match" your team mates gas. Some people feel fine using air for everything down to 180 feet or so. Others will not go that deep without trimix. If you are not trimix certified, your options are a little more limited.

As far as deco gas, most use pure oxygen at 20 feet. Some carry 50% for their deeper stops & some just use air. Using air is simpler as you don't have to carry an extra bottle. That does add some time to your deco schedule but it is worth it to a lot of people.

Basically, it just depends on you & how much training you have & how much task loading you want to handle on a specific dive. This is much like taking a road trip. There are several different roads that you can take to get you there. You have to decide if you want to drive the interstate at 75 mph or the highways at 65 mph or the country roads at 45 mph. The interstate gets you there faster but you don't get to see the towns & stop at all the stores. The highways let you stop & shop but there are lots more stop signs that you have to stop at & more town traffic to deal with. The country roads give you a much better view of the country & are more scenic but you have to deal with the dust & you can't drive real fast.


James
 
Thanks all...

This is a sort of new thing for me. I have dived deep on air but I don't necessarily want to go as deep as I have, in the past, but still do deco dives. Trimix etc will be the next step.

I bumped into a like minded instructor that wants to go deco/accelerated deco here in Curacao and I want to do that diving with him.

So, the dives would be, for example, max 66 m on air, with 80 and or 100 deco 6 litre stages...mix and match. But the mix and match bit is where I would like comments. Please also include travel gas comments but that would require different rigs.

I would like basic comments and help for extended deco dives lasting no more than 120 mins.

I am an numpty so all help appreciated.

Boogey
 
160' is my max depth on air. I will not dive deeper unless on "the mix". I don't carry a travel gas, and use a single deco gas of 70% 02.

70% offers the least deco time for a single gas with my profiles. I could use higher %'s of 02 for the same deco time, but the higher % requires a transition at shallower depths.

--Matt
 
I'll start with the caveat that you should not be diving deeper than your certification and training allows. With most agencies, Deep Air, Extended range, or Deco Procedures and Advance Nitrox certification carries a limit of 150 ft to 170 ft depending on the agency. So get proper training first and stay within the limits of your training. In my opinion, using a PPO2 greater than 1.4 on the bottom is a bad idea and even going to the 187 feet on air that this would allow is in my opinion a really bad idea as nitrogen narcosis is just too significant at that depth.

That said, the optimum mix from a minimum deco standpoint if you only want to use one deco gas is usually in the 70% to 80% range depending on the profile.

But there's more to consider than just deco time. It's hard to partial pressure mix full bottle of 80% unless you have a boost pump. 70% is more do-able but not that much. My preference for a single deco gas is 50% as it does not give up very much in terms of deco time compared to 70% 80% (and gives up nothing to 100%) as you can get on it at 70 ft rather than 20 or 30 ft. You also don't take as heavy a hit on the CNS clock and it is a lot easier to pp mix as you only need 1101 psi of O2 for a 3000 psi deco bottle. Doing the stops from 70' up on 50% also allows you to use more backgas on the bottom without cutting into a 1/3 reserve.

Advanced Nitrox/Accellerated Deco training is worth the effort and is the way to go as, for example, a dive to 150 ft for 25 minutes using 25% for the entire dive would require a 70 minute run time and 113 cu ft of gas (.6 SAC on the bottom, .4 for deco).

In comparison the same dive to 150 ft for 25 minutes with 25% for bottom gas and then 50% for the deco is possible with a run time of 54 minutes, keeps well over a 1/3 reserve on twin 72's or 80's (only 87 cu ft required) and allows a 1/3 reserve in deco gas as well, even on a 30 cu ft deco bottle.

I get an identical run time using 100% O2 for the deco gas but end up using 14 cu ft more backgas and have to shorten the dive a minute or two to keep at least a 1/3 reserve if using twin 72's.

Using 80% will cut a couple minutes off the deco, but again has almost as large an impact on the backgas available for use on the bottom as you can't use the 80% until you get to the 30ft stop.

Using both 50% and 100% deco gases on this same dive shortens the run time to 48 minutes, leaves you bags of deco gas and leaves you the same additional bottom mix as 50% alone.

Personally, I like this approach as it still allows me to complete the deco relatively quickly if either the 50% or 100% is unavailable (reg malfunction, lost contents, handed off to an OOG and soon to be ex-buddy, etc). One important thing to consider is that you always want a redundant supply of gas adequate to complete your deco in the event you lose one of your primary deco gases. If you are using only one deco gas, you need to have an adequate reserve of backgas to complete the much longer deco required. I don't believe in relying on my buddy's gas supply for my redundancy as if the same event happens to us both, we are then both screwed.

In moderate deco with run times under an hour, the 1/3 reserve in backgas should allow you enough gas to complete the deco in the event you lose one or both of your deco gases. If you are doing extended deco where you do not have enough reserve backgas to complete the longer deco required if you lose your deco gas, it's usually a powerful argument for going with 2 deco mixes or at least 2 separate deco bottles to ensure you can fully decompress in the event you lose one of them.

I put the primary dive plan on a slate and then put the contingency deco plans on subsequent pages as well to allow quick and easy reference to whatever deco plan fits with the operable/available gas(ses).
 
All the above share some good basic info. on deco diving gasses and what not....but the bottom line is to start at the beginning,,,,and I would strongly recomm. any of a number of good courses that lend themselves to proper training....not only in the gases and staging/deco...but even as important all the safety issues and proceedure requires for safer deep mixed gas diving....team work and proper tech diving proceedures. Best of luck man!!
 
We're trained & certified for 50m - and ANDI stresses use of 50% O2 max mix for many of the reasons given above by DA. This won't make us not use >50% O2 deco gas when we finally make our trip to Bikini though.

We don't use travel gas.

I like the comparison of the various options DA has outlined, and reasoning for each.
 
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