from BI to BP/W (?)

[djanni]

The Orion is a softback rear inflation. It's bladder has about 48.5lbs of lift which is on the large side.

Your BC's softback (like the Zeagle designs, a Scubapro Knighthawk and etc) holds the harness, tank bands and bladder together, forming a single unit.

Substitute a hardback (a steel/Alum plate) and you have a bp/w.

If you're going to be diving twin tanks or doing side mounts and etc a bc with a steel plate may be better. The weight and/or stresses caused by twin tanks or side mount tanks may be better managed with the steel plate holding everything together.

In normal single tank use, streamlining, stability, trim, bouyancy control, SAC and etc. etc. is affected by the BC one wears but the steel plate has little, if anything to do with it.

If you're a minimalist and don't mind dealing with a weight belt go for a DSS bp/w with a hog harness. If you like all the creature comforts like integrated weights, pockets and etc look at one of the Zeagle products.

Yeah, you can add integrated weight pouches, pockets and etc to a bp/w but then all the talk about you hear about bp/w's being more streamlined, stable and etc. is pretty much wiped out.

You might want to put a smaller bladder (30-35#) on the Orion and see if you like that better. Right out of the box your more streamlined.

I would add that if you go the minimalist/hog configuration nothing will pack for travel as neat and tidy as a bp/w singles rig.

 

[Kray_Z]

What if you were a diving God pre BP/W?

you mean there was such a time? It must have been total chaos!

 

[halocline]

In normal single tank use, streamlining, stability, trim, bouyancy control, SAC and etc. etc. is affected by the BC one wears but the steel plate has little, if anything to do with it.

This is simply not true. Using a steel plate gets weight off your hips and onto your back, sandwiched in between the two sources of buoyancy; your lungs and the wing. This dramatically affects trim and stability, and makes buoyancy control more precise. Since difficulty in buoyancy control is a major contributor to increased air consumption for most novice divers, anything that makes buoyancy control easier will also contribute to better SAC.

 

[Humuhumunukunukuapua'a]

I dove an Orion before getting a DSS Single Tank rig.

You will be able to drop 3-5 pounds of weight because there is so much less buoyant padding on the BP/W than the Orion.

It's a MUCH less cluttered rig all around. It's truly more streamlined. You feel less resistance in the water.

It dumps air more cleanly (the Orion traps a lot of air), and the shape of the wing (DSS anyway) is slimmer and more nicely balanced.

The whole rig feels much more stable. The wing won't come unattached like the Orion tends to on one side. Swimming in a trim position is much easier. No saggy velcro trim weight pockets.

MUCH easier to pack a BP/W for travel than an Orion.

In general, it feels like you're wearing less junk and diving is just easier. You'll love the switch if you decide to make it.

Cheers

 

[djanni]

This is simply not true. Using a steel plate gets weight off your hips and onto your back, sandwiched in between the two sources of buoyancy; your lungs and the wing. This dramatically affects trim and stability, and makes buoyancy control more precise. Since difficulty in buoyancy control is a major contributor to increased air consumption for most novice divers, anything that makes buoyancy control easier will also contribute to better SAC.

You are right that moving weight further forward is a good thing but one hardly needs a steel plate to do that.

The bc I use (Stiletto) has integrated weights which are higher up on my sides than a weight belt would be. Additionally it has trim pouches on the back flanking each side of the tank. The weight in those pouches would be located at the upper half of my back. That means my center of gravity is further forward than that of someone wearing a weightbelt. Not only that but I can easily control the amount of weight I put in the trim pouches.

If your logic was correct it would mean someone using a plastic backplate, like a DSS Kydex (1.6 lbs) for example, would have serious trim and stability issues because all their weight would be in the weightbelt and around their waist/hips. Albeit less of a problem, someone with an aluminum plate has more issues than someone with SS plate.

 

[halocline]

If your logic was correct it would mean someone using a plastic backplate, like a DSS Kydex (1.6 lbs) for example, would have serious trim and stability issues because all their weight would be in the weightbelt and around their waist/hips. Albeit less of a problem, someone with an aluminum plate has more issues than someone with SS plate.

No, it does not mean that they would have "serious trim and stability issues." I never said anything like that. It simply means exactly what I said, which was that having the weight on your back, sandwiched between the two sources of buoyancy, makes trim and buoyancy control easier and more precise. What you said was that the plate makes little or no difference, and in my experience that's just wrong.

 

[djanni]

ignore this post.......................

 

[cool_hardware52]

You are right that moving weight further forward is a good thing but one hardly needs a steel plate to do that.

The bc I use (Stiletto) has integrated weights which are higher up on my sides than a weight belt would be. Additionally it has trim pouches on the back flanking each side of the tank. The weight in those pouches would be located at the upper half of my back. That means my center of gravity is further forward than that of someone wearing a weightbelt. Not only that but I can easily control the amount of weight I put in the trim pouches.

If your logic was correct it would mean someone using a plastic backplate, like a DSS Kydex (1.6 lbs) for example, would have serious trim and stability issues because all their weight would be in the weightbelt and around their waist/hips. Albeit less of a problem, someone with an aluminum plate has more issues than someone with SS plate.

Don,

The choice of plate material is usually a matter of both trim and total weighting. The diver in a set of heavy steel doubles in fresh water may be overweighted in a SS backplate, and he certainly doesn't lack for mass up over his lungs, a lightweight plate makes sense here.

A Diver using little or no buoyant exposure suit (tropical conditions) may not need the weight of a SS plate, and a single tank, particularly a steel tank, will provide all the mass he needs up over his lungs, he benefits from a lightweight backplate.

Now take a diver using a buoyant exposure suit. The bulk of that added buoyancy is around his trunk, and that's exactly where the added mass of a 5 lb or heavier BP can be a great help.

Right tool for the job at hand.



Tobin

 

[djanni]

Don,

The choice of plate material is usually a matter of both trim and total weighting. The diver in a set of heavy steel doubles in fresh water may be overweighted in a SS backplate, and he certainly doesn't lack for mass up over his lungs, a lightweight plate makes sense here.

A Diver using little or no buoyant exposure suit (tropical conditions) may not need the weight of a SS plate, and a single tank, particularly a steel tank, will provide all the mass he needs up over his lungs, he benefits from a lightweight backplate.

Now take a diver using a buoyant exposure suit. The bulk of that added buoyancy is around his trunk, and that's exactly where the added mass of a 5 lb or heavier BP can be a great help.

Right tool for the job at hand.

Tobin

Tobin: Sure there are 100's of combinations and equipment for each. I don't have nearly the experience you have so I can't deal with a lot of different configutations at the same time.

So to keep it simple, lets take a diver with an AL80, and a 3mm wet suit. Assume he's a warm water wuss like me. He is using your single rig with a SS backplate. He carries 5 lbs of lead on his weightbelt and his trim is near perfect and he considers himself very stable.

Now, the only thing he changes is to switch to a Kydex plate. So the extra 3 lbs would, most likely, go to the belt. The trim characteristics are now changed, right? 60% of the weight of the plate is now on the belt and only 18% of the total weight is up over the lungs.

So comparred to his SS plate and in keeping with the general opinion on bp/w's his trim isn't as good and he is less stable.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Tobin: Sure there are 100's of combinations and equipment for each. I don't have nearly the experience you have so I can't deal with a lot of different configutations at the same time.

So to keep it simple, lets take a diver with an AL80, and a 3mm wet suit. Assume he's a warm water wuss like me. He is using your single rig with a SS backplate. He carries 5 lbs of lead on his weightbelt and his trim is near perfect and he considers himself very stable.

Now, the only thing he changes is to switch to a Kydex plate. So the extra 3 lbs would, most likely, go to the belt. The trim characteristics are now changed, right? 60% of the weight of the plate is now on the belt and only 18% of the total weight is up over the lungs.

Why would he change? Wrong application. Give him a steel 120 and maybe the Kydex is great.

Tobin