Frogkicking and ACL injury?

[BarryNL]

Hi All,

I have a torn anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) in one knee and find that when diving using the frogkick my knee gets sore after 45mins to an hour (so, mainly a problem with repetative dives). I have to decide whether to have surgery on the knee and wondered if anyone else has this problem and particularly knows whether surgery improves the situation.

Regards, Barry.

 

[Mike Veitch]

I had the surgery done years ago, (94) and started diving in 95, never had a problem.

 

[CameronMartz]

Though I have not had the surgery myself, I've worked with many who have. An ACL repair is one of the most successful orthopedic surgeries to get, with many athletes feeling that their repaired knee is stronger than their "good" knee. This certainly depends upon the degree of damage to your meniscus and other ligaments.

A damaged ACL is something that many people can live with, though almost any finning technique will put exactly the kind of shear strain on the knee that the ACL is there to limit. Frog kick, however, is a technique that can put extra load on the knee if not done properly, so the first thing to do is have someone qualified watch you in the water to make sure your technique is sound. No matter how competent a diver you may be yourself, it is impossible to really know how good your technique is just by feel- this is why I have other trainers watch my form every now and then at the gym even though I teach strength training for a living.

If your technique is squared away and you believe that your ACL injury is getting in the way of enjoying your diving, then surgery is certainly something I would consider. There is no guarantee, however, that your specific case will be improved by surgery, and you should make sure your surgeon knows what you want to do with your knee post-surgery.

Cameron

 

[Spectre]

not medical advice
The ACL is designed to, in simple terms, keep your shin bone from popping out in the forward direction. since a flutter kick puts resistance on the top of the foot it uses your thigh muscles and your knee as the fulcrum; and thus the part holding that fulcrum together is the acl combined with the muscles around the knee. However bike riding is the opposite, and uses the calf muscles, your ankle; and the knee strain is not the same direction as a flutter kick.

I had a big long, multi day debate with my Physical Therapist after my knee surgery; about what is good and what is bad. They really hated the idea of me finning, but when they hear 'finning' they think flutter kick. I discussed and debated and demonstrated a frog kick, and how it's not much different then riding a bike, just with the hips in a different position. They finally broke down and said it was ok. Well, more like stopped saying it -wasn't- ok.

Now if you want to pass on surgery, that's probably fine; depending on your activity level [I'm a relatively young competitive skiier so leaving it be was definately not an option]. However if you do chose to go without an ACL, you will definately need to be religious about working out and keeping the muscles strong to compensate.

And yes, I'm 100% in agreement with Cameron that if it's hurting, it's possible that your technique needs some refinement.

 

[chickdiver]

Also not medical advice....

I had an ACL reconstruction (allograft) in the spring of 2001. My surgery was to repair a completely torn ACL (surgeon described it as "hanging on by a string"). Prior to surgery my knee was completely unstable- it would buckle walking on uneven ground (and I am an extremely active 33 year old- so this was BAD). Post operatively, I was weight bearing and walking in a brace with crutches within 24 hours, crutchless in a week, and out of the brace within 3 weeks. I was diving again in six weeks (I also had an extrmely agressive surgeon and physical therapist, and I was in good physical condition prior to surgery). I am a cave diver, and have been for the last 11 years or so- I frog kick exclusively. I haven't had any post- operative pain frog kicking- ever. I would highly recommned having your form analyzed, and if you do opt to have the surgery- find an ortho who specializes in sports medicine.

Good luck!

 

[teknitroxdiver]

<hijack> Chickdiver, please check your older PMs </hijack>