Fresh ammo for the bp/wings debate

[Dryglove]

leadweight once bubbled...

If I switched to an E7-100 that would drop about 5 or 6 pounds. A SS backplate (just theoretical), another 5 or 6. Gees, I would be 1 or 2 pounds negative, at best.

Something like 17# negative at depth with a BC failure.

Thats why they make aluminum backplates(they are lighter) and the reason you dont dive heavy steel takes in a wetsuit.

 

[leadweight]

lal7176 once bubbled...


Thats why they make aluminum backplates(they are lighter) and the reason you dont dive heavy steel takes in a wetsuit.

Thanks

Its OK. On a www dive, for me an aluminum 80 will outlast the patience of everyone on the boat.

 

[SeaJay]

Bad news on the heavy STA... It makes me turtle. Sure, I can swim it out and stay upright, but my trim's off with it.

For reference, here's the rig:

6 pound bp
27 pound Pioneer
AL80 (Luxfer S080)
3/2 mm wetsuit

With this rig in salt water, I need six pounds to be neutral with an empty tank. Previously, I just carried 6 pounds on my belt... But today I instead dove a 6 pound STA.

With this rig, I turtle. I can't imagine that it wouldn't be even worse with a light STA and steel tank, since the steel tank would have slightly better leverage, being a little further from my CoG.

I fell in love with the stability of a STA, though... I like it better than the admittedly simple integrated STA of the Halcyon Pioneer series wings.

So... It looks like I'm going to be going back to 6 pounds on a belt... But I can do the Koplin light STA...

And it'll always have to be AL80's until I go dry or at least thicker in the suit... Else my trim is off. That sucks... At least AL80's are cheap and make good stages.

Oh, I dove both with and then without gloves today, while digging in the sand for shark's teeth (a very successful day!) Honestly, I think that the glove thing is just for peace of mind, even while digging... I can't see a legitimate reason for using gloves, unless it's for thermal protection.

So guess where they're going to be next time? Yep, they're staying at home. Why? 'Cause I've got enough things to worry about without adding more stuff for no reason. You know... "Model of simplicity" and all that. I just can't justify it.

In fact, I'm thinking about ditching my Halcyon stealth pack, too... And only taking a lift bag when I really need it. I'm tired of having to pull it apart for the after-dive rinse... When it didn't get used.

I dove with my Halcyon Scout lights today, as usual... But then I had the opportunity to dive a UK Light Cannon, too... Honestly, I was less than impressed with the quality of the unit, but man, I like HID lights... I didn't think it really made much of a difference, but out here in zero vis, the light manages to cut through some of that stuff... Much more efficiently than a regular Halcogen.

What subject were we on again?

 

[Northeastwrecks]

leadweight once bubbled...


Thanks

Its OK. On a www dive, for me an aluminum 80 will outlast the patience of everyone on the boat.

This I can believe. After noting your refusal to answer whether you've actually read the DM manual or are just guessing, and after noting your refusal to answer any other questions, you would probably outlast my patience using something about the size of my argon bottle.

 

[IanH]

Ah there we have it

"I really don't care what you think or what you want, really I don't."

That's the point mate, you love the sound of your own voice so much you can't hear what anyone else says.

"Ian, a brand newbie board member, likely a brand newbie diver too,....." Tut, tut, too much jumping to conclusions. You don't know anything about me. Anyway what makes you the font of all the worlds diving knowledge ?

".... inserting himself into someone else's business. " Funny I thought this was a public message board.

I'm sure we could banter like this for weeks, and enjoyable though it is, I doubt it is what the majority of people read this message board for. I believe people are after facts and opinions about diving and associated gear – not personal attacks. Why can’t we have the benefit of your obviously huge knowledge and experience instead of your personal rants against one particular contributor ?

Ian

 

[leadweight]

Northeastwrecks once bubbled...


This I can believe. After noting your refusal to answer whether you've actually read the DM manual or are just guessing, and after noting your refusal to answer any other questions, you would probably outlast my patience using something about the size of my argon bottle.

I am not quoting the DM manual so your question is not relevant. It was cited only as an example of one of Alex's many books and articles. You can do an internet search on him to see his many accomplishments.

Am I being cross examined?

Warm water wimps really have the opportunity to develop good air consumption. At best we have an 80 with 3000 psi when it cools off. Sometimes only a 72. The option of going to big steel tanks as a solution for heavy breathing is just is not available. Plus the conditions are ideal so there are no distractions if the diver wants too sharpen his skills.

 

[Northeastwrecks]

leadweight once bubbled...


I am not quoting the DM manual so your question is not relevant. It was cited only as an example of one of Alex's many books and articles. You can do an internet search on him to see his many accomplishments.

Am I being cross examined?

Warm water wimps really have the opportunity to develop good air consumption. At best we have an 80 with 3000 psi when it cools off. Sometimes only a 72. The option of going to big steel tanks as a solution for heavy breathing is just is not available. Plus the conditions are ideal so there are no distractions if the diver wants too sharpen his skills.

Thank you for admitting your lack of qualifications to comment upon your buddy Alex's books and that you haven't actually read them.

I didn't realize that you two were on a first name basis.

Your second statement contradicts your position. If warm water divers were so good, then it wouldn't matter whether they were wearing gloves.

As for steels being unavailable in your area, you may have heard of UPS. They will take something from one part of the country and bring it to another part of the country.

If you mean that you don't need them because all you do are wimpy little reef dives in 60 fsw, then that's a different story, although it also suggests that you aren't qualified to comment upon much that has to do with real diving.

Instead, perhaps you should limit your comments to the difficulties of diving in the rectum of the Carribbean (Coz) or the dangers associated with 60 foot dives in 100 feet of vis.

You should also consider writing a gear review on your new Zeagle Zena.

 

[leadweight]

I have to admit you have the right approach. Get in the water and see what happens. I just wish that the weekend diving was a little better around here. Twin Lakes, here I come.

I have a minor version of the stability thing. When I mount a single 4# weight on my top tank band for trim, I can feel it pull if I twist my body to one side. Variously, I tried placing 2# next my back on each side but eventually went to a single 3# as part of an overall weight reduction. I definitely agree with you on the likely effects of a steel tank.

Anyway, 6# on a weight belt isn't so bad.

Thanks on the glove issue. You may have noticed the thread moved to basic scuba disc.

 

[King Kong Matt]

Northeastwrecks once bubbled...
If you mean that you don't need them because all you do are wimpy little reef dives in 60 fsw

He means that the same people who are focing him to wear a snorkle on his dives are forcing him to wear that AL80 and be back on the boat with no less than 500 PSI...

Otherwise they turn that boat right around and spank!!!

 

[Northeastwrecks]

Does it need to be a dry snorkel?

I really prefer it when other people do my dive plans for me. Saves all the trouble of thinking.