French exception

[Jacgul]

I’m missing something here, are you saying in France people have to use air and not allowed to use helium. And there’s no narcoses at decompression depths. I’ve heard it said all the time “if you want to go deep on air” but that’s not how it works. Where you want or need to go happens to be deep and air is the gas you have to use or choose to use. If you want to dive a certain wreck or reef you don’t get to decide the depth it’s at.

No, to dive in France, you need either an FFESSM/CMAS cert. For FFESSM, you're either N2 and limited to 20m or you're N3 which is 60m. These certs are how most dive operators here run things. Instructor for x y or z agency? N2. Because you don't have the deep air and decompression cert. And yes, this is law, part of the Code du Sport.
You can find operators who accept other certs. PADI and SSI are accepted by, I'd guess between 1/3 and 1/2 of the operators on the med, in big cities. I don't know how they swing that legally. GUE and IANTD are big in Gramat/Lot. Other than that, it's FFESSM cert, or you're not going below 20m, if you go with a dive shop. Shore diving isn't huge here, along the med coast.
As to how FFESSM runs things, you can do nitrox as N2 but trimix is only for experienced N3 divers.
So, no, unless you dive with one of the, "niche" agencies as my local club's head called GUE, operators, you can't dive on helium unless you're N3 which means 60m on air. Same goes for rebreathers.

 

[Jacgul]

I’m missing something here, are you saying in France people have to use air and not allowed to use helium. And there’s no narcoses at decompression depths. I’ve heard it said all the time “if you want to go deep on air” but that’s not how it works. Where you want or need to go happens to be deep and air is the gas you have to use or choose to use. If you want to dive a certain wreck or reef you don’t get to decide the depth it’s at.

And yes, if you want to is exactly how it works. If a wreck is at 50m and you choose to do it on air, you chose to do it on air. If you choose to do it on trimix, you chose to do it on trimix.

 

[Celt]

No, to dive in France, you need either an FFESSM/CMAS cert. For FFESSM, you're either N2 and limited to 20m or you're N3 which is 60m. These certs are how most dive operators here run things. Instructor for x y or z agency? N2. Because you don't have the deep air and decompression cert. And yes, this is law, part of the Code du Sport.
You can find operators who accept other certs. PADI and SSI are accepted by, I'd guess between 1/3 and 1/2 of the operators on the med, in big cities. I don't know how they swing that legally. GUE and IANTD are big in Gramat/Lot. Other than that, it's FFESSM cert, or you're not going below 20m, if you go with a dive shop. Shore diving isn't huge here, along the med coast.
As to how FFESSM runs things, you can do nitrox as N2 but trimix is only for experienced N3 divers.
So, no, unless you dive with one of the, "niche" agencies as my local club's head called GUE, operators, you can't dive on helium unless you're N3 which means 60m on air. Same goes for rebreathers.

Okay, that’s just wrong, some people can’t manage narcosis at 60m. How are they able to get away with that within the EU. People should be able to choose the course they wish.

 

[Germie]

I have done deep dives in France too. But if you don't have a problem to dive on air, you have more operators to bring you to the wrecks. So your choice is bigger.
If you bring your own fills, you can choose from all operators.
But 3* recreational divers can do the wrecks like the Donator at 50m or the Togo at 58m on air. When I did it, I was already certified for decompressino diving. So we used also decogases. And one time we brought our own helium.

 

[Adamastor]

I know of a regiment with about 20 divers that averages a decompression injury per year. And they're not doing crazy amounts of dives. This is of course anecdotal as these incidents aren't published

There is an understanding that if you're a good FFESSM diver, you'll make a poor military diver.

The French military, uses ffessm as the base

I'm pretty sure it's the opposite. FFESSM was founded by military divers, but they opened diving to women in the 1970s and relaxed many physical requirements over time.

No, to dive in France, you need either an FFESSM/CMAS cert. For FFESSM, you're either N2 and limited to 20m or you're N3 which is 60m. These certs are how most dive operators here run things. Instructor for x y or z agency? N2. Because you don't have the deep air and decompression cert. And yes, this is law, part of the Code du Sport.

N2 is limited to 20m without a DM and 40m with a DM. GIven that the overwhelming majority of rec divers dive with a DM, that makes sense.
Of course an instructor for PADI who never did a deco dive in his life would be limited to either 20m or 40m within the NDL.

You are right, the reason FFESSM cert. is mandatory in France is because the FEESSM writes the law on the practice of diving. However, the FFESSM introduced the "aptitudes" or capacities which allow someone with no FFESSM/CMAS cert to legally dive in France. These capacities are only granted at the discretion of the dive director, though. It's merely a question of legal liability.

Okay, that’s just wrong, some people can’t manage narcosis at 60m. How are they able to get away with that within the EU. People should be able to choose the course they wish.

If people can't manage narcosis at a given depth, they shouldn't dive to said depth.
The Trimix cert allows diving to 70m, which follows an incremental logic from the 60m on air allowed by the N3 cert.

 

[JMBL]

No, to dive in France, you need either an FFESSM/CMAS cert. For FFESSM, you're either N2 and limited to 20m or you're N3 which is 60m. These certs are how most dive operators here run things. Instructor for x y or z agency? N2. Because you don't have the deep air and decompression cert. And yes, this is law, part of the Code du Sport.
You can find operators who accept other certs. PADI and SSI are accepted by, I'd guess between 1/3 and 1/2 of the operators on the med, in big cities. I don't know how they swing that legally. GUE and IANTD are big in Gramat/Lot. Other than that, it's FFESSM cert, or you're not going below 20m, if you go with a dive shop. Shore diving isn't huge here, along the med coast.
As to how FFESSM runs things, you can do nitrox as N2 but trimix is only for experienced N3 divers.
So, no, unless you dive with one of the, "niche" agencies as my local club's head called GUE, operators, you can't dive on helium unless you're N3 which means 60m on air. Same goes for rebreathers.

Sorry but as far as rebreathers are concerned, your statement is not accurate. A level 1 diver (CMAS * / FFESSM N1) can be trained on SCR (nowadays the Mares Horizon, the only SCR CE approved and available in France). A level 2 diver ((CMAS ** / FFESSM N2) can be trained on any CCR included in the FFESSM rebreather cursus (all of them CE approved).

All the details are here (in French only sorry)

 

[Jacgul]

There is an understanding that if you're a good FFESSM diver, you'll make a poor military diver.

I'm pretty sure it's the opposite. FFESSM was founded by military divers, but they opened diving to women in the 1970s and relaxed many physical requirements over time.

N2 is limited to 20m without a DM and 40m with a DM. GIven that the overwhelming majority of rec divers dive with a DM, that makes sense.
Of course an instructor for PADI who never did a deco dive in his life would be limited to either 20m or 40m within the NDL.

You are right, the reason FFESSM cert. is mandatory in France is because the FEESSM writes the law on the practice of diving. However, the FFESSM introduced the "aptitudes" or capacities which allow someone with no FFESSM/CMAS cert to legally dive in France. These capacities are only granted at the discretion of the dive director, though. It's merely a question of legal liability.

If people can't manage narcosis at a given depth, they shouldn't dive to said depth.
The Trimix cert allows diving to 70m, which follows an incremental logic from the 60m on air allowed by the N3 cert.

Which means that should he wish to go deeper than 20m, he has to pay to have an instructor with him, or find a buddy that is one. He can't do 40m without one. This has nothing to do with the MDL. However, it also means that tech divers that do know and regularly do decompression can easily have the same problem.

 

[Jacgul]

Sorry but as far as rebreathers are concerned, your statement is not accurate. A level 1 diver (CMAS * / FFESSM N1) can be trained on SCR (nowadays the Mares Horizon, the only SCR CE approved and available in France). A level 2 diver ((CMAS ** / FFESSM N2) can be trained on any CCR included in the FFESSM rebreather cursus (all of them CE approved).

All the details are here (in French only sorry)

I didn't know that one, looks like a fairly recent change.

 

[Jacgul]

There is an understanding that if you're a good FFESSM diver, you'll make a poor military diver.

I'm pretty sure it's the opposite. FFESSM was founded by military divers, but they opened diving to women in the 1970s and relaxed many physical requirements over time.

N2 is limited to 20m without a DM and 40m with a DM. GIven that the overwhelming majority of rec divers dive with a DM, that makes sense.
Of course an instructor for PADI who never did a deco dive in his life would be limited to either 20m or 40m within the NDL.

You are right, the reason FFESSM cert. is mandatory in France is because the FEESSM writes the law on the practice of diving. However, the FFESSM introduced the "aptitudes" or capacities which allow someone with no FFESSM/CMAS cert to legally dive in France. These capacities are only granted at the discretion of the dive director, though. It's merely a question of legal liability.

If people can't manage narcosis at a given depth, they shouldn't dive to said depth.
The Trimix cert allows diving to 70m, which follows an incremental logic from the 60m on air allowed by the N3 cert.

That's the whole reason trimix exists. They are one of the few, if not the only, agency in the world to teach air to 60m today. Except that you can't learn trimix through them unless you did N3. So say you're someone who gets narced hard at 45m every time...

 

[JMBL]

I didn't know that one, looks like a fairly recent change.

Not so recent, but now at least it's clear and easy to check. Think (but can't prove it) the web page I relayed here is about 2 or 3 years old.

Something funny about FFESSM rebreather training, it does exist, but there are not so many training opportunities, so many French rebreather divers get certified by TDI or IANTD and then ask an equivalent certification card from the FFESSM. That's what I did.