French exception

[berndo]

GUE

Education, Conservation, Exploration

www.gue.com

Surprised you could not figure this out.

I still haven't. There are many more than 17 instructors listed on that site.

 

[ginti]

Here in Italy we typically have a deep dive with deco in the morning. Then a good lunch, some rest. And sometimes (not always) a shallower dive in the afternoon.
The only time I experienced multiple dives in a day was on a LOB in Australia (Cairns).
I did not like to make 10 dives in 3 days...
And it was air, no Nitrox

Well, it is not necessarily true that in Italy "typically" we have a deep dive with deco in the morning. There is a lot of variation (A LOT), and most new divers do not do deco nowadays. But I understand your point, which is why I previously said to be flexible when interpreting messages on the forum

 

[Jacgul]

The issue with FFESSM is the diving to 60m on air. It, like so many other things here, is a relic of the an era when much less information was available. The other problem is the general refusal to respect other agencies' certs, although that is getting to be better.

 

[ginti]

The issue with FFESSM is the diving to 60m on air. It, like so many other things here, is a relic of the an era when much less information was available. The other problem is the general refusal to respect other agencies' certs, although that is getting to be better.

There are so many other very bad things with FFESSM.

The point is that instructors have a lot of freedom of teaching and also power to decide what clubs divers can and cannot do. But there is NO CONTROL on the quality of instructors. So if you happen to be in a club with bad instructors, you'll learn pretty bad habits and dive even when you shouldn't.

Most instructors are ok, some are pretty good - so, on average, they will compensate for the poor structure of the agency's curriculum. But the few who are really bad... No comment here

 

[Germie]

I think deep air is coming back with the heliumprices nowadays.

My cmas 3* cert is also a 60m on air cert. It is not mentioned on the card, but when it was issued it was. You cannot change these limits afterwards.
I don't see the refusal of respecting other agencies with cmas or ffessm. I see that with another agency. But remember, there are not statistics that show that cmas has more accidents than iantd or tdi or padi.
There is no best or worst. You only can agree or disagree with some. But statistics don't show this.

I don't have experience with instructors of ffessm, but have with cmas. There is no control, I agree. But at least here, cmas instructors have to do some updates every year. But here it are the clubs that overrule the cmas rules. So the clubs make it hard. They slow down things too much, they make inmotivated divers sometimes. Not the agency, but the clubs. It is still quite oldfashioned. But there are good instructors. The newer ones most times dive better. But yes, you cannot get expelled from cmas here. There is no standard that writes about this.
Other agencies have that, have a qa. But also here again, statistics don't show that cmas is worser than others. But it just won't fit for everybody.

 

[Jacgul]

There are so many other very bad things with FFESSM.

The point is that instructors have a lot of freedom of teaching and also power to decide what clubs divers can and cannot do. But there is NO CONTROL on the quality of instructors. So if you happen to be in a club with bad instructors, you'll learn pretty bad habits and dive even when you shouldn't.

Most instructors are ok, some are pretty good - so, on average, they will compensate for the poor structure of the agency's curriculum. But the few who are really bad... No comment here

I've noticed that as well.
The French military, uses ffessm as the base, there's crossovers either way, although of course a soldier with civilian diving isn't just a combat diver.
I know of a regiment with about 20 divers that averages a decompression injury per year. And they're not doing crazy amounts of dives. This is of course anecdotal as these incidents aren't published.

 

[Celt]

I use only air as bottom gas, never used anything else deeper than 50m. Divers using air deep don’t see it as a big deal. It just works and it’s free, that’s why it’s used . If helium was free and available deep air divers would use that. I sometimes wonder do people with deep pockets and widely available helium like to look down their noses at divers using cheap air. They sure seem to get all upset about it.

 

[Jacgul]

I use only air as bottom gas, never used anything else deeper than 50m. Divers using air deep don’t see it as a big deal. It just works and it’s free, that’s why it’s used . If helium was free and available deep air divers would use that. I sometimes wonder do people with deep pockets and widely available helium like to look down their noses at divers using cheap air. They sure seem to get all upset about it.

Because in France, in order to dive how you want in most of the country, you have to have an ffessm cert. So that means forcing people to dive in what I would say is a pretty inarguable narcotic depth with a ppo2 that exceeds what has generally been agreed upon as safe for rec diving. And then there's the decompression, which I would say is no problem without the narcosis.
If you want to go deep on air, go for it. I don't believe it's a good decision as a training agency's requirement to get past their handholding level qual. Especially one that is effectively mandated by the government. Like I said, other certs are getting to be more recognized, but it's far from universal here.

 

[Angelo Farina]

My experience in France is a bit limited, but my Italian CMAS certification was accepted everywhere with absolutely no problem.
You can see my certs here:

http://www.angelofarina.it/Public/Underwater-Certifications/Angelo-Farina-certifications.pdf

As you see, both Italian and International CMAS certs have French as the main language (English translation in smaller font and within brackets) and this makes them happy...

 

[Celt]

Because in France, in order to dive how you want in most of the country, you have to have an ffessm cert. So that means forcing people to dive in what I would say is a pretty inarguable narcotic depth with a ppo2 that exceeds what has generally been agreed upon as safe for rec diving. And then there's the decompression, which I would say is no problem without the narcosis.
If you want to go deep on air, go for it. I don't believe it's a good decision as a training agency's requirement to get past their handholding level qual. Especially one that is effectively mandated by the government. Like I said, other certs are getting to be more recognized, but it's far from universal here.

I’m missing something here, are you saying in France people have to use air and not allowed to use helium. And there’s no narcoses at decompression depths. I’ve heard it said all the time “if you want to go deep on air” but that’s not how it works. Where you want or need to go happens to be deep and air is the gas you have to use or choose to use. If you want to dive a certain wreck or reef you don’t get to decide the depth it’s at.