French exception

[admikar]

Of course you begin with the straw man arguments. My opinions stated in this thread is completely unrelated to my incident, and is not based on my personal experience. If you actually read that other thread, you will see that I simply asked questions, I did not presume to know the answers.

I am not making up any theories, or making any assumptions based on anecdotal evidence, I'm simply rehashing what the actual experts in the field are saying based on their own scientific research.

Let me quote Reilly Fogarty from Dan, summarizing research by Simon Mitchell and Gavin Anthony (my emphasis):

While what you are saying is true, people diving in these conditions should have knowledge of potential problems.
I personally dive down to 60 m on air. Not on single tank though and always with a buddy I trust. But I am also aware of WOB at those depths and will not do anything that requires exertion. Nothing happens fast down there. If I get caught by current I'll either try to shelter or let be carried away while going shallower and reasess. I will not fight it.

So, @berndo is correct here.
Gas density is one of the factors, but you going over your limits is the most dangerous thing.

 

[berndo]

Of course you begin with the straw man arguments. My opinions stated in this thread is completely unrelated to my incident, and is not based on my personal experience.

It's not a strawman argument. I tried to expain to you what exercise underwater looks like and even gave a specific example and what I said is in line with what you posted. (Yet you know better).

The PADI system and the 40 m depth limit was intruduced to that everyone can safely dive. Even the out of shape, middle aged desk-jockey. There is a huge difference between divers with little experience and casual vacation divers and people who dive a ton.

If you actually read that other thread, you will see that I simply asked questions, I did not presume to know the answers.

I gave you several lengthy explanations about what happened to you and how obvious the case was. I even gave you an example of how an actual co2 buildup looks like in real life. You had a theory, that was based on something you read online but misunderstood. What you quoted is not new and has been known for a long time, it doesn't contradict anything I said here or in the other thread... you're lacking the real life context though. You're co2 buildup theory doesn't really fit the bounce dives discussed here, but you wouldn't know because you've never done those dives.

I guess all the people around the world who have thousands upon thousands of dives are all idiots and their experiences are trumped by what new diver steinbil read on the internet. Very realistic.

 

[berndo]

If I get caught by current I'll either try to shelter or let be carried away while going shallower and reasess. I will not fight it.

Best not to to dive very in a place where you can get caught by current. And yes, when you do get caught or something happens you need to be aware of your breathing and definitely not fight.

I think steinbil doesn't know that experienced diver are aware of this and overestimates his expertise and underestimates other people. IMHO many of the gue people (especially the new fundi ones) live in a bubble where they think they know stuff other people don't. You can't argue with these people... they think they know better, even if they have next to no experience.

 

[steinbil]

I think steinbil doesn't know that experienced diver are aware of this and overestimates his expertiese and underestimates other people. IMHO many of the gue people (especially the new fundi ones) live in a bubble where they think they know stuff other people don't. You can't argue with these people... they think they know better, even if they have next to no experience.

If only you were able to see the irony. I'll take Simon Mitchell's advice over yours any day. But that's just me, underestimating the renowned anonymous internet expert berndo, yet again.

 

[tursiops]

I'm enjoying all the chest-thumping about just how impaired you can be and still dive safely. Apparently, from the claims, you can dive safely no matter how impaired you are.

 

[berndo]

I'll take Simon Mitchell's advice over yours any day. But that's just me, underestimating the renowned anonymous internet expert berndo, yet again.

You read something on the internet you don't fully understand... as you did in you're 'co2 hit' thread. You researched that too.

I genuinely don't get people like this. When I was a noob with a few hundered dives I always loved to hear from divers with more experience and loved hearing real-life stories. It would have never crossed my mind to think I know better because something read and think I understood... I would always ask alot of questions. This was before online forums and before there where online experts.

 

[berndo]

I'm enjoying all the chest-thumping about just how impaired you can be and still dive safely. Apparently, from the claims, you can dive safely no matter how impaired you are.

Where are your numbers of all the accidents due to people diving to 50m on air in the Med? As a 'marine scientist' I assume you have numbers.

 

[steinbil]

You read someting on the internet you don't fully understand... as you did in you're 'co2 hit' thread. You researched that too.

I genuinely don't get people like this. When I was a noob with a few hundered dives I always loved to hear from divers with more experience and loved hearing real-life stories. It would have never crossed my mind to think I know better because something read and think I understood... I would always ask alot of questions. This was before online forums and before there where online experts.

From my experience with you, it seems my reading comprehension is better than yours, just saying.

If you actually understood what you were reading, you would see that I love to (A) hear from divers with more experience, and (B) hearing real-life stories. You would see that the CO2 theory you keep referring to originated with a more experienced diver, and that I questioned it and revised it because of more input from more experienced divers. Haha, I even listened to YOUR INPUT in that very thread, and did not argue with any of the points you made there. I don't even know why I'm writing this, as you probably won't read/understand it.

Yes, I listen to more experienced divers. Constantly. I just seperate the chaff from the wheat, and in this case you're the chaff.

 

[tursiops]

Where are your numbers of all the accidents due to people diving to 50m on air in the Med? As a 'marine scientist' I assume you have numbers.

DAN Annual Diving Report 2020 Edition - NCBI Bookshelf is a good start.
Unfortunately, DAN Europe does not collect the data you request; possibly too embarrassing.

 

[berndo]

From my experience with you, it seems my reading comprehension is better than yours, just saying.

Yeah, I know you think that:

I think steinbil doesn't know that experienced diver are aware of this and overestimates his expertise and underestimates other people.

Unfortunately, DAN Europe does not collect the data you request; possibly too embarrassing.

I think as an American you probably don't realise how many mediterranean locals dive in France, Italy and Spain.
I'm actually very much in favour of the 40m air limit for vacation divers and casual divers. But the way the level of danger is presented here is silly. It requires experience and knowlege about the dive site.
I doubt that the average french ffessm-type diver gets into more accidents than your Murican PADI dude. I like that France isn't as restrictive and isn't all PADI. We're at the point where an American agency tries to tell people they should use trimix below 30m in OW... it's laughable.