Free Flowing Reg

[tddfleming]

I went diving this weekend and my reg kept free flowing pretty bad. The water temp was somewhere in the 46-47 range at the surface, which was where the problems occured. The air temp was low 50's on Sat and 33 on Sun morning. I had to bang it on my hand a bit to get it to stop. Once I got it to stop sometimes it would be fine other times it would start again once it came in contact with the cold water again. BTW, I have my crank pressure set as high as it will go, which gives me almost no resistance in breathing.

I have a Oceanic EOS primary, a Hollis 321 octo and my 1st stage is a Oceanic CDX 5 balanced.

The rest of my family had the same exact setup except for the EOS primary. Which is the one I had the issues with. I checked the IP pressure and had a reading of 140. They had no issues what so ever.

Once I was able to decend everything was fine, however, if my lips even slightly parted and the water touched where my lips were wrapped around the mouthpiece it would start free flowing slightly and then stop as soon as my lips came back on that area. My husband videoed us and it looked like I was breathing non stop. I would take my breath and exhale then I would get a burst of free flow exhale. Needless to say I went thought a lot of air. Between freezing and the free flowing.

I do not see on the specs for the EOS what the water temp it is rated up to. However, the dive shop stated that is was good for cold water.
I am not even sure that these temps are considered cold water. I guess that is in the eye of the beholder. To me is was damn cold! A total of five dives and I was still cold come Monday morning.

So my question is this, does this sound right? Should it free flow like that in cold water? I need to take it in to be checked out again (when I bought my Hollis octo a few weeks back I had the shop install it for me). The shop I bought the Hollis from and the shop I bought the other stuff from are two different shops. One is a Oceanic auth dealer and the other is a Aeris auth dealer. Which I understand that all three are virtually the same, brothers and father just different names. But I would prefer to take my reg to the Aeris dealer to have them check it out, if that is possible. I have had it with the orginal shop that I was first cert with and had bought all my equipment from.

I hope all this makes even a little sense???? Either way, I need to take it some place, should this reg. be doing this free flowing at that temp??? Does anyone have any suggestions for me?

 

[cbrich]

First don't bang a regulator against your hand, it won't fix the problem, it will just make your hand hurt. The simple fix is put your finger in the mouth piece, if it's still free flows turn the knob inhalation knob in. If you can't turn the inhalation knob in any further, take it back the dealer and have them adjust the second stage.

I used to own a Oceanic EOS and a Hollis DC2/212 (same regulators), and it seemed like they were going into the shop at least once a month to get the second stages adjusted because of the exact same thing.

 

[tddfleming]

First don't bang a regulator against your hand, it won't fix the problem, it will just make your hand hurt. The simple fix is put your finger in the mouth piece, if it's still free flows turn the knob inhalation knob in. If you can't turn the inhalation knob in any further, take it back the dealer and have them adjust the second stage.

I used to own a Oceanic EOS and a Hollis DC2/212 (same regulators), and it seemed like they were going into the shop at least once a month to get the second stages adjusted because of the exact same thing.

Don't tell me that, that is not good. What did you end up going with? As for taking it in, which shop, Oceanic or Aeris?? We tried the finger insert thing and that did not help. Did not have this problem in the pool 2 weeks before this. Only at the quarry.

 

[elan]

When your lips are parted even slightly so the air escapes and it flows it can happen I think if your venturi is all jacked up. I think it supposed to do that if your mouthpiece is oriented up as air finds an escape route. Do you have a venturi lever ? if so did you tried to turn it to - setting?

I had an Aeris reg and did not like it for this property of pushing air into the mouth. It was behaving exactly as you explained. We later traded it in for another reg.

Take it to the shop, ask them to adjust it

 

[tddfleming]

When your lips are parted even slightly so the air escapes and it flows it can happen I think if your venturi is all jacked up. I think it supposed to do that if your mouthpiece is oriented up as air finds an escape route. Do you have a venturi lever ? if so did you tried to turn it to - setting?

I had an Aeris reg and did not like it for this property of pushing air into the mouth. It was behaving exactly as you explained. We later traded it in for another reg.

Take it to the shop, ask them to adjust it

Yes, had the venturi on and the crank pressure turned all the way up. Have not had this issue until this past weekend. Do you mean turning it to the non dive mode???

 

[cbrich]

Since you are having problem with Oceanic regulator, I would take it to the Oceanic dealer, but if the Aeris dealer is nicer ask them if they would tune an Oceanic EOS stage.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

The reason for the adjustment knob is to make it easier to breath under a heavy load such as swimming hard. Properly adjusted the reg when all the way open SHOULD free flow SLIGHTLY. Standard procedure then is to turn the adjustment knob until that slight free flow stops. Then turn it another 3/4 to 1 1/4 turn. This is the usual setting for the average diver. If you had the knob all the way open I'm not surprised it began to free flow. That is what is should do. Your dealer should have shown you how to set the adjustment and explained the reg setting when you bought it. I've been diving the same set up more or less with the exception of a GT3 or Delta3 with the CDX5. Mine are set to behave exactly the way yours is. Been that way for going on 6 years even though now they are relegated to a back up role since I got my HOG D1's. There is nothing wrong with your reg from the description you gave. If the knob did nothing then I'd say there was a problem. But going on the info you gave it seems you didn't have the reg adjusted right for the dive you were doing and that seems like it's because no one ever showed you how to. Colder water you want it to breath a bit stiffer anyway because that will lessen the chance of the 1st freezing up. But I;ve had mine under the ice and never came close to feeling like they would free flow when they were properly set. This is a common problem with people not used to using an adjustable 2nd stage. They think it should always be all the way open when in fact that setting is rarely used except under extreme conditions. Not your fault, the dealer should have done a better job explaining the reg to you.

BTW I am an Oceanic factory authorized tech.

 

[tddfleming]

The reason for the adjustment knob is to make it easier to breath under a heavy load such as swimming hard. Properly adjusted the reg when all the way open SHOULD free flow SLIGHTLY. Standard procedure then is to turn the adjustment knob until that slight free flow stops. Then turn it another 3/4 to 1 1/4 turn. This is the usual setting for the average diver. If you had the knob all the way open I'm not surprised it began to free flow. That is what is should do. Your dealer should have shown you how to set the adjustment and explained the reg setting when you bought it. I've been diving the same set up more or less with the exception of a GT3 or Delta3 with the CDX5. Mine are set to behave exactly the way yours is. Been that way for going on 6 years even though now they are relegated to a back up role since I got my HOG D1's. There is nothing wrong with your reg from the description you gave. If the knob did nothing then I'd say there was a problem. But going on the info you gave it seems you didn't have the reg adjusted right for the dive you were doing and that seems like it's because no one ever showed you how to. Colder water you want it to breath a bit stiffer anyway because that will lessen the chance of the 1st freezing up. But I;ve had mine under the ice and never came close to feeling like they would free flow when they were properly set. This is a common problem with people not used to using an adjustable 2nd stage. They think it should always be all the way open when in fact that setting is rarely used except under extreme conditions. Not your fault, the dealer should have done a better job explaining the reg to you.

BTW I am an Oceanic factory authorized tech.

Jim:

I guess it still does not explain why it happened this time and it has never happend before. As I used the reg that same way as I always do. It seems that if that was the only issue it should have been doing it all along. Right? The only difference is the coldness of the water. And adding that Hollis Octo. Used it last Nov when the water temp was 50. No issues then. Bought it back in Oct. 2010.

I like it so when I hit 40+ feet I get no resistance in breathing, which I would get from the shops rental gear before I bought my own. At right around 40' it would become hard to breath. By the adjustment on this reg, I do not get that resistance.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I don't doubt that it was not doing that last year when it was new and had not been used all that much. Now that it has been "broken in" a bit it is behaving exactly as I would expect it to. In the colder water you may also be inhaling a little harder. The CDX5 is a balanced 1st stage that is designed to deliver the same volume of air regardless of depth and I can personally testify that it;s true down to 155 feet in 38 degree water. You can detune the 2nd stage a bit to make it so that it won;t free flow at all even with the knob all the way open but it is not the recommended setting. The shop rental regs may have not been as finely tuned, been unbalanced 1sts like the older Sherwood Brut's, or detuned a bit to prevent free flows. I can pretty much guarantee that if you try the setting I recommended you will not notice any difference at 40, 60, or 120 than at the surface on the reg you now own. The IP is right where it should be, the reg is for all intents new, and if it does seem a little stiffer just turn the knob. But normally it should not be in the all the way open position. If it is it will free flow when you take it out of your mouth as there is no longer any resistance from the mouthpiece to push the diaphragm back out against the ambient water pressure. You need to have some pressure against that diaphragm to allow it to spring back into place when you are not exhaling against it. With the knob all the way open there is none and it will just hold the lever open and air will flow unobstructed.

 

[redacted]

Jim:

I guess it still does not explain why it happened this time and it has never happend before. As I used the reg that same way as I always do. It seems that if that was the only issue it should have been doing it all along. Right? The only difference is the coldness of the water. And adding that Hollis Octo. Used it last Nov when the water temp was 50. No issues then. Bought it back in Oct. 2010.

I like it so when I hit 40+ feet I get no resistance in breathing, which I would get from the shops rental gear before I bought my own. At right around 40' it would become hard to breath. By the adjustment on this reg, I do not get that resistance.

Regulator behavior will change over time and perhaps a bit with temperature also. As seats take a set, IP may increase and cracking pressure may decrease. It sounds like your reg is set for very low cracking pressure (a good thing) so it may have to be carefully managed at the surface to prevent freeflows. That management includes using the user adjustment to increase cracking pressure on the surface and managing the position and orientation of the 2nd stage as you enter the water. If you still are unable to prevent or control freeflows at the surface, your tech can detune the reg a bit but that may effect performance.