FP triple fatality

[Patoux01]

My quick calculations give an acceptable bottom time of around 8 minutes before getting in real trouble (with a sac of 30lpm, assuming a slightly stressed diver).

I never said I considered this kind of practices acceptable. I merely noticed that is how diving to large-ish depths is done in some countries in Europe.

 

[Darghu]

Please also note you will more likely have 200bar at initial pressure than 230bar.

I will edit later...

 

[scubafanatic]

Given the fact that Europe is so full of overly cautious, nanny-states, it's weird Europe (France, at least) is so liberal with diving so deep, with 'air' as well. Here in the USA, dive shops/ops freak out if anyone dips below an absolute maximum of 130' ( 40 meters)!

 

[KevinNM]

I decided after a deep course that I was going to run the GUE protocol of helium below 30 meters. I really wasn't safe at 130 on air.

 

[Darghu]

Given the fact that Europe is so full of overly cautious, nanny-states, it's weird Europe (France, at least) is so liberal with diving so deep, with 'air' as well. Here in the USA, dive shops/ops freak out if anyone dips below an absolute maximum of 130' ( 40 meters)!

I would not say you are totally wrong but speaking about what "French training - Code du Sport" refers to Air max 60m is okay. Some instructors suggest to take a Nitrox course just after Level 1. So some divers are certified Nitrox and will prefer to dive with LDS who have Nitrox fills. But more infos are needed here and I guess we will not know what happened into this incident.

About what I said earlier about GUE training (or any other agencies) who are a way better and cheaper. French diving are weird (such as his politics) in some places. I will not come into detailed but you better select your instructor and LDS (I believe everyone is doing that) and most of time it cost a little more (this is totally logic). Now if you are a new diver and if you do not know how to choose or to detect a good-bad instructor, those who look around internet will consider to take GUE or TDI training.

And please there are great french divers too I am not saying that the whole french diving system are corrupted and that you should have a bad point of view of them.

It is not, that's why I don't know where he go that from. Diving in France is cheaper than any other place I've been, except OW courses in australia.

You can dive really cheaper, if you are totally equipped and autonomous, and dive from a shore you only pay or rent your tanks (except if you got a friend's home fill station) and this is clearly not so expensive after all (same way Belgium). This is the same if you got a friend with a boat + pilote, full equiped in surface security (and oxygenotherapy) or not. It's up to you to take your responsabilities if you dive without a LDS (who are supposed to be well-equipped) and better be prepared.

Now if you want to be well-trained and be at least ready for a cave/wreck training (or prevent your death) you better consider to take a GUE training (or other technical agencies) and choose your instructor wisely. Now the tricky part is that some French clubs/LDS do not even recognize / accept to recognize clearly GUE divers. Please note GUE diving are fully recognized in Cave diving.

 

[scubafanatic]

Don't misunderstand me here, I'm against the overly conservative dive limitations we usually face here in the USA, and find the French attitude more refreshing (the theory that if you pass 130 ft. deep 'your head is going to instantly explode' is absurd), but it is a common belief over here.

 

[Darghu]

Well in French training it is fine to dive Air at max 60m, is it safe?

I'm pretty sure some French instructors / divers are around here in scubaboard you will get some more detailed answers.

I made some dives only with French divers to see that their trim buoyancy and fin techniques (and other things) are not adequate for a cave if they are not specifically trained for it.

So if you apply that with a cave entrance with an increased chance of silt conditions...

 

[gfaith]

A 60m (200ft) dive on air. Let's see 4 min to descend, 4 minutes at depth, 10 minutes to ascend with a 3 min safety stop. 18 total minutes on air Narced out of your mind. I believe we are way beyond safe recreational diving here, and I doubt most tech divers are not going to do that on air.

 

[Patoux01]

ay better and cheaper. French diving are weird (such as his politics) in some places. I will not come into detailed but you better select your instructor and LDS (I believe everyone is doing that) and most of time it cost a little more (this is totally logic). Now if you are a new diver and if you do not know how to choose or to detect a good-bad instructor, those who look around internet will consider to take GUE or TDI training.

Please, there's like 1 GUE instructor that is allowed to teach in France. We're not gonna sit back and wait for him. He's not even that good IMO.

You can dive really cheaper, if you are totally equipped and autonomous, and dive from a shore you only pay or rent your tanks (except if you got a friend's home fill station) and this is clearly not so expensive after all (same way Belgium). This is the same if you got a friend with a boat + pilote, full equiped in surface security (and oxygenotherapy) or not. It's up to you to take your responsabilities if you dive without a LDS (who are supposed to be well-equipped) and better be prepared.

That's the same in the rest of the world, I haven't seen a huge amount of places where it was more expensive to go walk from shore than taking a boat.

Now if you want to be well-trained and be at least ready for a cave/wreck training (or prevent your death) you better consider to take a GUE training (or other technical agencies) and choose your instructor wisely. Now the tricky part is that some French clubs/LDS do not even recognize / accept to recognize clearly GUE divers. Please note GUE diving are fully recognized in Cave diving.

GUE is not recognized in Frech law for diving. Cave diving falls outside of that law and therefore there is no such thing as "recognized" there. The law covers OW diving with an operator.

I won't go into this again because it clearly is not the debate, but GUE is probably the worst choice to start diving with if you want to dive recreationally with french operators (similarly to UTD, ISE and that kind of agencies).

A 60m (200ft) dive on air. Let's see 4 min to descend, 4 minutes at depth, 10 minutes to ascend with a 3 min safety stop. 18 total minutes on air Narced out of your mind. I believe we are way beyond safe recreational diving here, and I doubt most tech divers are not going to do that on air.

???????!!!!
You don't descend 15m/min. You don't ascend 6m/min. edit: my bad, thought you said 10 + 3, not 7+3, which is more reasonable.

 

[Darghu]

@Patoux01
I am totally open if you want to continue this conversation in private instead of this thread.
I follow you at some points and it should be interesting to figure it out each point of view if you are ok. "waitin' for ya'