Foruth Element Arctic VS Mountian climing underware.

[jimyoungdd]

Looking at Fourth Element Arctic and the underwear Mountain climbers use, such as: Heavy Weight Fleece Polypropylene Thermal Underwear. It seem like both will do a great job, keep you warm even wet, washable, durable, light. But the mountain climbing underwear will cost 90% less. ??? Am I missing anything there?

 

[tech3324]

I don't have any Fourth Element undergarments to compare, but I do use a Lowe Alpine stretch fleece jumpsuit as the base layer in my Fusion drysuit. The Lowe Alpine is a mountaineering garment, sleeveless, front zip, drop seat, and seems to work perfectly in the drysuit application. I see no reason why mountaineering fleece garments shouldn't work perfectly well for you.

 

[descent]

... It seem like both will do a great job, keep you warm even wet, washable, durable, light. But the mountain climbing underwear will cost 90% less. ??? Am I missing anything there?

This made me chuckle.

Do manufacturers discriminate? Hell yes.

There are a lot of climbers who are so poor (financially) that it is startling. They live out of the back of twenty-year-old pickups. They camp outside of national parks because the $20 entry fee is too high. They fix their old equipment with duct tape, rather than buy shiny new things on a regular basis. Would you fix a cracked mask with duct tape?

Value-focused climbers know that a fancy logo does not add insulating power to fabrics. If a manufacturer wants to sell to these people, the product must be effective and priced right.

High-altitude mountaineers, on the other hand, tend toward high incomes and smaller time commitments. They don't want to live at Camp Four. They can't. They spend 12 to 14 hours a day in a busy office. At lunch, they order marvelous gear online. When they go climbing, they look like a model from the manufacturer's catalog. When something breaks, they don't just replace it. They "upgrade".

Can you sell padded cloth to an "alpiniste" for 10x to 20x more than the value-driven rock rat will pay? Hell yes. All. Day. Long.

 

[Adobo]

Looking at Fourth Element Arctic and the underwear Mountain climbers use, such as: Heavy Weight Fleece Polypropylene Thermal Underwear. It seem like both will do a great job, keep you warm even wet, washable, durable, light. But the mountain climbing underwear will cost 90% less. ??? Am I missing anything there?

It depends on what kind of diving you need them for. If you are doing short dives in polar water or anything beyond a short dive in temperate water, even the 4th element might not be sufficient. Certainly if you have a catastrophic flood in your drysuit and you have a prolonged exist (long surface swim, deco obligation, etc), you will be wishing you had better undergarments.

Long exposures or multi days of diving in cooler tropical waters might be perfect for the 4th element arctic.

 

[raftingtigger]

Can't answer your question directly, but warmth is only one important factor. Buoyancy is another. I'm replacing my warm enough USIA undergarment with a newer double layer 300 gm polartech one to reduce my need for ballast.

When I got my first drysuit in 1980s the underwear was Thinsulate and very bulky. It took me 40# of ballast to sink. The difference in ballast needed was striking when I got the USIA set. I tried a newer set of borrowed undergarments (250 gm double layer from the seller below) and found I was able to drop another 10# ballast.

Not saying there is anything wrong with Thinsulate, but am sure that 1980s Thinsulate and 2015 Thinsulate are not the same thing.

This is what I bought New 4 Way Antarctica Dry Suit Undergarment Size Small 300 GR SQM Layer | eBay.

 

[jimyoungdd]

I don't have any Fourth Element undergarments to compare, but I do use a Lowe Alpine stretch fleece jumpsuit as the base layer in my Fusion drysuit. The Lowe Alpine is a mountaineering garment, sleeveless, front zip, drop seat, and seems to work perfectly in the drysuit application. I see no reason why mountaineering fleece garments shouldn't work perfectly well for you.

Neither do I. that's why I asked. Wanted something as an undergarment for my 200gm whites. Will be diving Scapa Flow for 7 days and wanted just a bit more warmth. Fourth Element Arctic seemed to fit the BILL but the price seemed excessive. Buoyancy will not be an issue with the product I'm looking at.
tks,

 

[divad]

This is what I bought New 4 Way Antarctica Dry Suit Undergarment Size Small 300 GR SQM Layer | eBay.

Apparently you bought the last one he had; I've bought from him before and would like to again, now, but he's showing "no items for sale."