Foreign owned hotels and dive ops in Sharm el Sheikh / Sinai

[Hillmorton Scubie]

I saw this and wondered if this is the start of removing foreigners from the Sinai.
What is your opinion ?

The tragic fate of Sinai's dual-nationals - Opinion - Ahram Online

 

[Crowley]

This new law about landowners with dual nationality is rather bizarre, especially since it is supposed to also encourage foreign investment in Sinai. As the article says, many of these are based on relationships between Europeans and Egyptians. The vast majority of these cases are Egyptian men who married European women. They are raising children here, and the Egyptians have dual nationality through the marriage. In some cases, I know for a fact, this is a deliberate attempt by Egyptian men to get work permits in foreign countries and it works like this: Get married, have a baby, move to Germany, or Sweden, or the UK, or Russia - then get divorced when the passport is issued. That is really true - because I know people on both sides of the marriage where this has happened. on the other hand, many of these couples are genuine, and trying to do nothing more than eke out a living and raise a family. And their lives have now been destroyed. They have no option but to sell up - and... where will they go?

At the end of the day, it's Egpytian nationals who are getting screwed over. There is no requirement for purely foreign investors to sell up, only those with dual nationality or dual ownership - it's bizzare, because many permanent residents of Sharm meet these criteria. Is it to drive the property market up so that foreigners will invest at double the price? Or is it some religious based rule to drive away the concept of dual nationality and return the market to wealthy Egyptians? We have no idea, no clue whatsoever as to the senseless motivation behind this new law.

C.

 

[Pedro Burrito]

From a Real Politik standpoint, who will benefit from the forced sale of property in the Sinai? If this actually takes place, will the real estate market in the Sinai collapse? Why were dual citizens targeted? Who will be able to purchase the properties? If there are no purchasers then the Egyptian government will seize the property and "The (compensation) price is to be decided by a committee of experts the formation and task of which is to be determined in a decision to be issued by the minister of justice." That could result in depreciating prices for property.

I disagree with the article, someone must be benefiting from this new law.

 

[Crowley]

The land-grab is the same. They want to return it to Egyptian hands, as quickly as possible. I have a very cynical theory about this --the government cannot possibly order the immediate selling of property owned by Egyptian nationals - that would mean immediate removal of office by the whole country. Neither can the government order that Foreign investors have to sell up, because this will mean an end to foreign investment. I think anybody who understands the basics of economics would agree.

But the dual nationality folks - there's quite a lot of the in Sharm, actually. Sharm was becoming prime Egyptian real estate before the revolution - my former 3-bedroom apartment was 550 Euros per month at one point, and sorry, but the mortgage on my whole house in Milton Keynes was less than that! My rent in central London was cheaper! For a better apartment, where everything worked, and I didn't have to disconnect the washing machine before I unloaded it, because otherwise I get an electric shock from my underpants! And although there are a lot of dual nationality Egyptians here in Sharm, they constitute a very small minority overall, and they live in some property that could be very profitable indeed if it's bought at a low price during a time when business in Sharm has dropped to an all-time low.

The really cynical part of me sees it as some sort of test of patriotism and loyalty, which is - "hmmm, are you Egyptian, or are you Russian? We think too many foreigners are taking Egyptian jobs. Maybe if you were only Egyptian, you wouldn't have to sell your house". It occurred to me whilst writing that I wonder if there's a clause in the law which states that the land-grab will not be required if the dual-nationality Egyptian rescinds his (sometimes her, but mostly his) dual nationality? I would have to check.

As I say, I tend to the cynical, but based on direct evidence of how the business-led part of the dive industry is moving here in Sharm, I think it's a deliberate move based on nationalism rather than financial gain. There is, potentially, a lot of money to be made from property ownership in Sharm, but it would make a lot of money for only a very few people in a country with a population of 86 million souls. But yeah, a lot of people are going to be very disappointed along the way - there would be serious repercussions for Sharm especially, should all these families be forced to move away.

Crowley

 

[Solly]

My point to add related to land ownership is that it sure will affect sharm and dahab a lot however what is being said (off the media, might be correct might be wrong) is that it is more intended for north sinai after a noticed activity of land selling...

 

[Crowley]

You're right Solly - but I also do discuss this regularly with some of my Egyptian colleagues and they are as mystified as anybody.

We were discussing the situation at work this morning and I have been told that actually, it's not just dual-national citizens who have to sell up, but all foreign owned property. This comes from foreign friends of mine who have been told by their lawyers that everything has to go.

And - here's a tragedy - The world famous Dr. Adel, resident of Sharm since it began, and our much-loved hyperbaric physician and head of DAN in the region... holds dual-nationality. :-(

C.

 

[Solly]

Too bad, i know of course dr. Adel....
ok, if we r gonna discuss the decree but no side political talk then i will participate.
when this news was known, i searched for the original statement and read it all, it has a section saying that ownership is the thing that would be needed to change, but business itself is not, property can be held by owner on a usufruct basis upon certain process... Tis can be a backdoor for saving business...

 

[Crowley]

Solly - are you saying that if a property is used for business, such as a dive centre, I guess, then this does not have to be sold, only residential property - houses and apartments - have to be sold? And can you clarify if it applies to all foreigners or just Egyptians of dual nationalities or forein marriages. I asked around today and people have conflicting reports,

- As I was in the middle of writing this, my estate agent just walked in to collect the rent, and of course is keeping well informed of this and she has just told me: The minister who made the declaration has taken it back and is saying he has been taken out of context by the ahram news agency. That's what he is saying, not me. The regulation has changed such that: All foreign, or dual-nationality-owned properties purchased before September of this year will not be affected, however foreign/dual-nationality purchases made after this time will be subject to a 30 year lease, not the current, standard 99 years. There has apparently been a meeting of important/wealthy people to ask for longer. Don't forget, as she reminded me, that most property here is not owned even by Europeans, they are owned by Saudis, and Qataris, and people from Dubai.

One kicker is that children born with dual nationality will not, under the current draft of the new law, be able to inherit. And there are a lot of dual nationality children growing up here right now, actually. Sharm's been established long enough that children of the first dual-nationality marriages here are following in their father's footsteps and becoming diving instructors.... She told me that if I have property-owning friends on facebook then I should tell them that the advice is to stay put, it's a bullpoop regulation, and there are too many rich and powerful people of foreign and dual-nationality here for it to be passed, so they will squabble about the whole thing for a long time and it may well never come to fruition.

That's what I was told by my estate agent, anyway. She is German, but has vested interests in keeping up-to-date!

Cheers

C.

 

[Solly]

what I understood is that the business entity itself can be kept, you can keep your XYZ dive center but the land/property should be sold, and eventually if it gets back to the government you can have it leased as you said (the figure I read was 50 years not 33).... but this would be based on some decree that has to be issued.

if this news about before/after September 12 is correct, I guess the point of no inheritance would be void, as inheritance is not purchase.... anyway I think that describing this as not a final situation yet is true.

aside of the above, just want to say that from my point of view as an Egyptian participating on this board, I find your opinions are always unbiased and I enjoy reading them !

 

[Quero]

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