For those of you who dive solo . . .

[wedivebc]

IMO, any instructor who feels this way knows he is not doing an adequate job of teaching. Why would an instructor take students to open water knowing they are not ready? They will improve, but they are not going to get substantially better over the course of 4 dives. If he takes students on their check out dives who are not skilled enough to be a real dive buddy, then he will certify divers who are not skilled enough to be real buddies. He then sends these poorly trained, dangerous people out to dive with similarly skilled buddies. Doesn't he have a conscience?

When I have a student about whom I feel I'd be diving solo on a check out dive, I mandate more time in the pool. There's no excuse for ever taking such poorly trained students to open water.

So how many pool dives does it take to to make a non-diver into a competent and reliable buddy on an OW dive? I don't think any OW course is adequate and that is why the buddy system is so heavily relied upon. I agree 4 OW aren't enough, I just don't see how much more you can do within the framework of OW training.

 

[Walter]

I plan 8 pool sessions.

 

[annasea]

So how many pool dives does it take to to make a non-diver into a competent and reliable buddy on an OW dive? I don't think any OW course is adequate and that is why the buddy system is so heavily relied upon. I agree 4 OW aren't enough, I just don't see how much more you can do within the framework of OW training.

Do I feel extremely fortunate reading your post, wedivebc! I have found an instructor who does at least 6 OW dives -- 2 spring, 1 jetty, 2 ocean, 1 of the students' choice, plus more to be determined. Based on my talk with this instructor, I have very little doubt that I will indeed be a bona fide diver, albeit a newbie, by the time I'm certified. In addition to the 6 dive minimum, he also teaches above and beyond the agency's minimum requirements.

My instructor-to-be (fingers crossed) teaches independently and for the joy of it, and therefore has no reason to pass me unless I actually deserve to be passed.

If, for some reason, I'm unable to fulfill the requirements in the usual timeframe, he is more than happy to have me stay on longer or plan a return visit in order to complete my certification.

 

[AndyNZ]

Walter - some of the instructors I have seen have cultivated a style of teaching that portrays them as being the font of the knowledge, the heroic dive leader galantly charging forth into the deep blue.... to be honest, I think that if anyone is faced by something like a blown o-ring (and ensuing catastrophic gas loss) for the first time then there will be a at least a delay in acting...

I shudder to think how a student diver might react when the instructor they work with (who has given the image that they've taken the magic instructor pill that makes them indestructable...!) has that o-ring blow out...

I consider diving with students to be a solo dive (irrespective of how much faith I have in their basic training) in terms of the level and preperation that needs to go in to identify and prevent problems occuring with me and my gear. I have every confidence that if I had a catastrophic gas loss that I could count on a student to provide an alternate air source - but then once in that situation, you still have to manage the whole group and make a safe ascent. If your hanging on a students octi, you simply do not have control. I have no idea what I would do if another buddy team made an overly fast ascent, or I could see one of them holding their breath during ascent.

By considering my dive to be a solo dive, I remove as much risk as I can of something happening to me that would then result in me not having control. This is different from assuming that the students don't have the skills to cope with the situation!

 

[wedivebc]

Do I feel extremely fortunate reading your post, wedivebc! I have found an instructor who does at least 6 OW dives -- 2 spring, 1 jetty, 2 ocean, 1 of the students' choice, plus more to be determined. Based on my talk with this instructor, I have very little doubt that I will indeed be a bona fide diver, albeit a newbie, by the time I'm certified. In addition to the 6 dive minimum, he also teaches above and beyond the agency's minimum requirements.

My instructor-to-be (fingers crossed) teaches independently and for the joy of it, and therefore has no reason to pass me unless I actually deserve to be passed.

If, for some reason, I'm unable to fulfill the requirements in the usual timeframe, he is more than happy to have me stay on longer or plan a return visit in order to complete my certification.

That sounds like a good program. Many of us would like to have the luxury of that type of training but when the dive store is paying the way they decide how many pool seesions and how much instructor time they are willing to pay for. That is why I teach only more advanced level courses because I can control teaching time and scope of training better.
Sounds like you picked a winner.

 

[Dive-aholic]

That sounds like a good program. Many of us would like to have the luxury of that type of training but when the dive store is paying the way they decide how many pool seesions and how much instructor time they are willing to pay for. That is why I teach only more advanced level courses because I can control teaching time and scope of training better.
Sounds like you picked a winner.

You said it. It'd be nice if the LDS allowed more freedom, but time is money. My LDS (which I'm slowly distancing myself from) has even gone so far as to overschedule their pool so that students are waiting for another class to finish up and get out. I try to avoid taking OW trips from them. Most of the students didn't spend classroom and pool time with me. They spent it with other instructors. It's so much easier with already certed divers or the independent OW classes.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

hee-hee, I can see the future. I'll take fundies and you will solo.

That may well be ... four years ago I wasn't very interested in DIR. In fact, I told a GUE instructor on this board that I'd be interested in taking a Fundamentals class when hell freezes over.

Guess what?

I changed my mind ...

Happens sometimes ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

IMO, any instructor who feels this way knows he is not doing an adequate job of teaching. Why would an instructor take students to open water knowing they are not ready? They will improve, but they are not going to get substantially better over the course of 4 dives. If he takes students on their check out dives who are not skilled enough to be a real dive buddy, then he will certify divers who are not skilled enough to be real buddies. He then sends these poorly trained, dangerous people out to dive with similarly skilled buddies. Doesn't he have a conscience?

When I have a student about whom I feel I'd be diving solo on a check out dive, I mandate more time in the pool. There's no excuse for ever taking such poorly trained students to open water.

Well ... two observations on that score ...

First off, I've had plenty of students who ace every skill in the pool ... then do poorly in OW. Why? Well, first off, in the pool they are wearing either a bathing suit or a 3 mm shorty. In OW, they're decked out in 14 mils of farmer john neoprene. Rather than the 4 or 6 lbs they were using in the pool they've now got 26 to 32 lbs of lead on. They're also wearing a hood and 7 mm gloves. Then there's that visibility thing ... it's huge, psychologically, on someone who drops down into 6 or 8 foot visibility for the first time. Takes some getting used to that no amount of pool work can prepare you for.

Big difference between taking someone to OW in Florida and taking someone to OW in Puget Sound. I've noticed that regional differences like that color most of our perspectives.

As to mandating more pool time ... sometimes that's the right thing to do. But there's a big difference between being a YMCA instructor ... where the pool's always available ... and working for a dive shop ... where you have to schedule pool time, sometimes weeks in advance, and it costs an average of $85 per hour if it's available.

When I have a student who I feel needs it, the typical answer is to hold them back and put them in next month's class. It happens ... but not often.

Must be nice to teach in your kind of situation Walter ... but most instructors don't have the kind of options you apparently do ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[divingbuddy]

I have all that in a number of regular dive buddies, including my wife. Yet, there are times that I still enjoy the private enjoyment from a dive on my own. I don't dive alone because of buddy short-comings, but because I choose to putz around on my own, exploring at a pace and taking pictures as the opportunities arise. Cheers!

 

[MikeSSS]

I have two dive buddies for lake diving. I see them before going in the water, once in a while while in the water and again after coming out.

On rig trips we are busy hunting and that is a solo thing.

Once in a while one will take pics of the other hunting.

On reef trips I just prefer to wander and do what I want to do.

Day or night make no difference.