Folded Knees

[Ayisha]

...I am more efficient streamlined doing flutter, frog kick rather folding my knees. And frog kick does not disturb the silt. I even do reverse without folding my knees.

How about a flutter or modified flutter? I don't mean the typical straight leg flutter kick, I mean a DIR flutter/modified flutter. Your knees would have to be bent and your fins flat.

Unless you're in a course that you want to be in and an instructor is asking you to bend your knees to achieve the goal of that lesson, what does it matter what you or others do?

...To have a good trim, I actually place my cylinder and my weight belt high on my back...

Right, so you're wearing your cylinder and weight belt high rather than raising your feet.

...my trim is better with my entire body on a straight line, my fins, calfs, thighs, aligned.

So, it sounds like you go off balance when you raise your feet, which often means that when you do certain kicks, it can cause a subtle or not so subtle rocking motion up and down.

If your ballast is a little high, you could be head heavy, and raising your fins or having your arms straight out in front of you can tip you forward, which can lead to rocking during some kicks.

If you're weighted in a balanced, stable matter (from head to toe as well), it shouldn't matter much if you have your legs extended straight or have bent knees, otherwise we'd be rocking during phases of every kick cycle.

Video would be very helpful to see...

 

[drk5036]

right why don't you show us a picture or video so we can see better what you're talking about.

 

[ginti]

@Dody could you post a video?

 

[Julius SCHMIDT]

See this recreationally motivated guy, he frog kicks everywhere, look at his sinews twisting as he steers the ship. See the stiff string he made for his lower dump

His legs are mostly bent just pivoting his fins from the ankes as the water dictates

With fins cocked like sails to go where he needs and that's where his arms naturally stay because that's where arms naturally stay, especially when he's twiddling one of those poking off the reef sticks that divers lose

 

[rongoodman]

What is the point of folding knees as a rec diver?

I can't see how you would do a back kick or helicopter turn with straight legs, and I've watched far too many divers kicking up sand and silt with straight legged flutter kicks from several feet above the bottom, completely unaware of what they're doing. Divers modified the various kicks to work with bent knees in order to provide more control and avoid disturbing the bottom and those are useful things to practice, no matter what the type of dive. It's just that they become more critical in an overhead environment.

 

[Blackcrusader]

But I am 100% a recreational diver. Not a tech one. I don't penetrate wreck, I don't enter caves. And I avoid low vis.

This is my dive buddy. We also dive with feet up like this and yes we are recreational divers.
As you know I will dive in whatever position suits me at the time. As we were descending to the wreck below being horizontal and looking down was fine. We got lucky with the fish. They came close as I remained quite motionless without a lot of bubbles.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Thanks @boulderjohn but I don't understand. Let me explain my point of view. I find folding my knees unnatural and annoying. To have a good trim, I actually place my cylinder and my weight belt high on my back. This makes sure that my head is lower than my feet. I don't see the benefit of bending my knees. I don't need it for control, it makes my finning less effective and I don't see how it would be better for my trim. When I am over sand or silt, I frog kick and it is enough not to stir the bottom.

I don’t know what kind of diving you do, but some of us frequently stop to look at things over a silty bottom, a coral reef, or something else we want to be very close to yet without letting our fins droop down and touch it. The bent-knee dive posture is useful when you are trying to stay still, stable, and not let those fin tips touch something below.

 

[The Chairman]

What is the point of folding knees as a rec diver?

Personally, I find it comfortable and natural. If my legs are extended, I am a tad foot heavy. If they are normal bent, then I am fairly flat and if my feet touch the back of my tank, I'm a bit nose heavy. So, repositioning my feet allows me to check things out better as well.

One unforeseen advantage was in the unsuspecting diver drag. This is a game where you try to sneak up on your buddy and attach a line so they can tow you, unbeknownst to them. The further they tow you, the more you 'win'. Apparently, it's really hard for your opponents to sneak up on you when your feet are so high.

 

[drk5036]

can anyone comment on the differences in finning technique? When you dive with knees bent and doing the "modified flutter kick" you essentially want your thighs to remain in-line with your torso, and extend your shins away and toward your body with a loose ankle? And for frog kick, again your knees keep the fixed bent pose?

 

[The Chairman]

And for frog kick, again your knees keep the fixed bent pose?

Fixed? Not really, but like my underwear, it "depends". If I'm in a narrow cave or in a hyper-silty environment, my knees, calves, and thighs will barely move, and ankle my way along. If the environment permits, I might resort to "pull and glide" and stop kicking altogether. There's a spot in Ginnie called the catacombs, where you can only scull (ankle kick), and if your feet aren't high and close together, you will silt yourself out. Having patience is the only way to master some sections.
There are times when I want POWER in my kick and I will start with my knees bent, do a normal (for me) frog kick and push my legs back at the same time.
However, most of my needs lie between both of those extremes and so I modify the kick to suit.

As for the modified flutter kick, I reserve that for when I need to demonstrate it. Like the frog, it can range from a gentle shuffle to almost a full-blown flutter.