Flathead VI Service Question

[FurtekJR]

Hey Everyone,

I have a regulator service question. I dive a Zeagle Flathead VI DIN. I took it to my LDS for its annual service, picked it up last week and went to dive it this weekend. I geared up as usual and pressurized my regulator. A few minutes after pressurizing it, I noticed a faint hiss coming from both second stages. The hiss was noticeable 2 feet away and sounded like maybe 5-10% or so of what a free flow sounds like. I figured that maybe it just needed to get wet since the seals where new. The leak did not improve once I got underwater. Again, it was maybe 5-10% of what a free flow would be. It was fine when I exhaled, but the second that I stopped breathing or exhaled air began flowing out of the right exhaust port (more air flowing out than I was exhaling). Additional piece of information after I picked up my regulator from the shop I immediately hooked it up to one of my tanks. I didnÃÕ notice any hiss but I did notice that the pressure sensor / plastic bubble on the bottom of the first stage was bulged out much more than usual.

Everyone I dove with who heard the leak had the exact same thought as I did that the intermediate pressure is set too high. This evening I brought my regulator back to the shop and spent about 45 minutes with the service techs. I described the problem and they hooked it up to the bench. The said that the intermediate pressure seemed find and increased the breathing resistance in the second stages. I couldnÃÕ hear a leak. As soon as I got the regulators home, I hooked them up to my tanks and after a few minutes the leak reappeared (not quite as bad as before but still there). I also tested it by placing it in the sink and again leak was present (pressed purge valve, flipped switches / knobs etc. leak still there). Additional information. My regulator is DIN. They needed to use a yoke adaptor to hook it up to the bench. Also, the bulging pressure sensor / plastic bubble was still bulging and I could make the leak get better (slightly) or worse by pressing on it.

One of the techs said that the second stages might need new springs. To me it sounds like a problem with the first stage / IP. I would like to know if anyone has any thoughts on what is going on? Is it possible that using the yoke adapter is somehow messing with the IP reading the shop is getting?

[FONT=&quot]Thanks.

Joe
[/FONT]

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

Hey Everyone,

I have a regulator service question. I dive a Zeagle Flathead VI DIN. I took it to my LDS for its annual service, picked it up last week and went to dive it this weekend. I geared up as usual and pressurized my regulator. A few minutes after pressurizing it, I noticed a faint hiss coming from both second stages. The hiss was noticeable 2 feet away and sounded like maybe 5-10% or so of what a free flow sounds like. I figured that maybe it just needed to get wet since the seals where new. The leak did not improve once I got underwater. Again, it was maybe 5-10% of what a free flow would be. It was fine when I exhaled, but the second that I stopped breathing or exhaled air began flowing out of the right exhaust port (more air flowing out than I was exhaling). Additional piece of information after I picked up my regulator from the shop I immediately hooked it up to one of my tanks. I didnÃÕ notice any hiss but I did notice that the pressure sensor / plastic bubble on the bottom of the first stage was bulged out much more than usual.
Everyone I dove with who heard the leak had the exact same thought as I did that the intermediate pressure is set too high. This evening I brought my regulator back to the shop and spent about 45 minutes with the service techs. I described the problem and they hooked it up to the bench. The said that the intermediate pressure seemed find and increased the breathing resistance in the second stages. I couldnÃÕ hear a leak. As soon as I got the regulators home, I hooked them up to my tanks and after a few minutes the leak reappeared (not quite as bad as before but still there). I also tested it by placing it in the sink and again leak was present (pressed purge valve, flipped switches / knobs etc. leak still there). Additional information. My regulator is DIN. They needed to use a yoke adaptor to hook it up to the bench. Also, the bulging pressure sensor / plastic bubble was still bulging and I could make the leak get better (slightly) or worse by pressing on it.

One of the techs said that the second stages might need new springs. To me it sounds like a problem with the first stage / IP. I would like to know if anyone has any thoughts on what is going on? Is it possible that using the yoke adapter is somehow messing with the IP reading the shop is getting?

[FONT=&quot]Thanks.

Joe
[/FONT]

I'm not a Zeagle tech. But I just finished rebuilding a Flathead VI last weekend. It is a wonderful, very easy regulator to service and tune.

I've highlighted the part of your post that caught my attention.

It sounds to me like they incorrectly installed the hydrotransmitter (a black plastic plunger) and hydrostatic diaphragm (the clear diaphragm you see bulging). These are the parts of the 1st stage that "environmentally seal" it.

The hydrotransmitter & hydrostatic diaphragm need to be installed with the 1st stage PRESSURIZED. If they did not do this, or if they subsequently loosened the endcap for some reason, you lose the vacuum under the hydrostatic diaphragm and need to redo the procedure.

Pressure on the hydrostatic diaphragm will transmit pressure to the internal 1st stage diaphragm, which in turn increases IP (it is supposed to do this... it is transmitting ambient water pressure). If you don't have the hydrostatic diaphragm installed properly, I suspect this will create havoc with your IP, and could explain the leak in both regs.

Take 2 Aspirin, call me in the morning, and my receptionist will send your insurance carrier the bill

Seriously, take it back the LDS. The hydrostatic diaphragm is not supposed to bulge that much, so they "screwed the pooch" when they serviced the reg

Good luck and best wishes.

 

[Fishpie]

Sounds like your service person is a right cowboy and hasn't a clue what he is doing. The dead giveaway is the bulging environmental diaphragm....it really bugs me to see this. It tells me that your guy shouldn't be servicing regs. The cap that seals the diaphragm needs to be tightened down with the reg pressurized and then you get the nice concave dish to the seal.
That aside....this isn't the cause of your problem with the reg. You are 100% correct with your diagnosis and it is a 1st stage problem. The shop is feeding you a full line of bull about the 2nds needing new springs....give me a break, what are the chances of BOTH 2nds having the same, very rare problem right after being serviced....slim to none.
Assuming that the service parts have been installed correctly....and that's a pretty big assumption given their piss poor history....my guess is that the IP is set too high and when they checked the IP the 2nds were still freeflowing which gave a false low reading on the IP gauge. Simple basic stuff.
Idiots like this posing as technicians don't deserve to be in buisness.

 

[fisheater]

Contact Zeagle.

Heck. Re-post this to the Zeagle sub-forum and Scott Zeagle will likely chime in.

 

[Jeff Toorish]

Why didn't you attach the reg to a tank at the shop? Why wait until you got home?

It sounds like the shop's intermediate pressure gauge is not calibrated properly.

JT

 

[james croft]

Hey FurtekJR,
There are several shops in the Richmond area. Over the years I have had some problems with a couple of the shops doing a poor overhaul on my regs, including one that left an exhaust valve out. It was a sweet breathing reg until it hit the water but then it breathed very wet, like delivering 100% water. Needless to say I was not happy. I picked up one reg and opened it up after the overhaul and my diaphram was covered in dried silt. They had not done anything to the reg and charged me for it. That is why I now service my own regs. It can be a crap shoot to get a reg serviced. Some shops have good days and bad days but is the shop you are dealing with carry Zeagle gear ? If not they probably don't have the kits to do a proper overhaul and are just taking the reg apart and cleaning it and reassembling using the old parts. If this is the case, they probably don't have the manuals or certifications to be working on that reg.

 

[Fishpie]

I think James is right about the taking it apart and then putting it back together bit.....I was just too mad about the explanation about the 2nd stage springs that the OP got from the shop to mention it.
Did you get a bag of your old used parts returned with your "serviced" reg?
Please gave a good look around your regs. Look for scratches and gouge marks in the brass especially the hole for the pin spanner.

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

FurtekJR,

I had just skimmed-over and missed the part in your post where you said the tech told you it might be bad springs in both regs. Sheeesh!!!! I'm assuming the reg was functioning normally when you took it it for annual, correct?

Fishpie and James are right. While I had originally thought "everyone has a bad day" and you should just take it back to the LDS and let them make it right, the "bad spring" diagnosis by the tech is just over the top. The fact that they incorrectly installed the hydrostatic diaphragm and were completely oblivious to the fact that it was bulging with the reg pressurized after you brought it back to them to re-check is more than enough reason to look elsewhere for competent service.

Better yet, you might want to consider learning to do your own service. The mechanical ability to perform the service is, well, not rocket science. And the techs at your LDS are obviously not "rocket scientists" You have a very easy-to-service regulator .

Good luck and best wishes.