First Tank

[FoxTrot]

Hello,

I'm thinking about buying my first tank. I have all my own gear aside from it.

At first I was thinking of just going with a "Neutral" AL80 (which seems are actually a little negative empty), mainly because all i've ever dived are al80's.

Then I was thinking, why not just go with a HP steel tank and convert my reg to DIN. Stronger material, lasts longer, take even more weight off my BC.

I came across some XS tanks on scuba.com.

Their Steel 100 is 1.1" shorter and 1.4lb lighter (empty), 5.1lb more negatively bouyant while full, and 1.4lb more negatively bouyant while emtpy.

Basically it seems like I'm answering my own question here. The HP 100 seems to be worth the extra $100 (little less).

It also comes with the yoke valve insert.

So, to my questions. Does it seem like steel is the way to go?

I should say that I am not (yet) into any tech diving or anything like that, just recreational. I also just dive a 7mm wetsuit with my Sherwood Avid BC. I've read a few things on here about concern diving steel tanks with wetsuits v dry suits since you're more negative in the event your bc or wing fails. Most people said that diving one tank isn't really a concern.

I know I should be aware of this fact while diving, but should it prevent me from going steel over al?

My second question:

If I go with this tank, should I just use the little insert and not have my regs switched? Seems like the easiest route but I want to make sure there aren't any known problems or issues with using it. That way if I go somewhere and rent standard valve AL's I don't have to mess with a yoke adapter.

I also read on here that "real" HP tanks can't use those little valve inserts. What is the story with that?

TIA for any comments!

 

[JahJahwarrior]

real HP tanks are 3500, most "hp" tanks now are 3442. a 3442 tank uses a 200 bar DIN valve. 3500 must use a 300 bar DIN valve. a 300 bar DIN valve cannot use the insert. Most of them that I have seen are angled backwards, and have no dimple in the back fo rthe yoke screw to fit into.

I'd say get the steel tank, and dive with the yoke insert in for now. DIN is the way to go, in general, but you can change your first stage over later, and get a yoke adaptor. If you travel often and can't bring your tank with you, then you might should leave it yoke if the adaptor bothers you too much.

 

[FoxTrot]

Thanks for the response, what you said makes sense.

As for going DIN on my 1st stage, I'm not sure if the yoke adapter would bother me or not. Some people on here have spoken of it being too close to and banging them in the back of the head. Though, if I go with my own tank(s) i'll probably not find myself renting any that often. Then, if I do, I can just use a yoke adapter, I'm sure it wouldnt be that big of a deal every now and then. I think I'm leaning toward DIN.

 

[Jim Baldwin]

Hello,

I'm thinking about buying my first tank. I have all my own gear aside from it.

At first I was thinking of just going with a "Neutral" AL80 (which seems are actually a little negative empty), mainly because all i've ever dived are al80's.

Then I was thinking, why not just go with a HP steel tank and convert my reg to DIN. Stronger material, lasts longer, take even more weight off my BC.

I came across some XS tanks on scuba.com.

Their Steel 100 is 1.1" shorter and 1.4lb lighter (empty), 5.1lb more negatively bouyant while full, and 1.4lb more negatively bouyant while emtpy.

Basically it seems like I'm answering my own question here. The HP 100 seems to be worth the extra $100 (little less).

It also comes with the yoke valve insert.

So, to my questions. Does it seem like steel is the way to go?

I should say that I am not (yet) into any tech diving or anything like that, just recreational. I also just dive a 7mm wetsuit with my Sherwood Avid BC. I've read a few things on here about concern diving steel tanks with wetsuits v dry suits since you're more negative in the event your bc or wing fails. Most people said that diving one tank isn't really a concern.

I know I should be aware of this fact while diving, but should it prevent me from going steel over al?

My second question:

If I go with this tank, should I just use the little insert and not have my regs switched? Seems like the easiest route but I want to make sure there aren't any known problems or issues with using it. That way if I go somewhere and rent standard valve AL's I don't have to mess with a yoke adapter.

I also read on here that "real" HP tanks can't use those little valve inserts. What is the story with that?

TIA for any comments!

Steel tanks normally hold more air relative to their size and are usually negative at the end of the dive instead of being positive like aluminum.

I have two HP 100's that are a couple of inches shorter than my AL 80's and hold 25 percent more air. I also have two HP 120 that are about 3 inches taller and hold 50 percent more air. My AL 80's are now used for deco bottles

If your tanks come with the screw in insert go ahead and use your yoke regs. If you see at some point going into cave, wreck, or tech diving then you can convert your gear over. This yoke/DIN valve will fit exactly like the Al tanks you are currently using.

What you were referring to in your post was a DIN adapter that is used for DIN regs when diving yoke tanks.

It screws onto the DIN regulator and makes it a yoke reg again. It does add a couple of inches and pushes the reg. closer to your head. I have never really had a probelm when I have used tanks without DIN valves.

The initial cost on steel tanks is more but they will last forever, the buoyancy is better and remember that you never get penalized for taking more air than you need.

 

[Colliam7]

As for going DIN on my 1st stage, I'm not sure if the yoke adapter would bother me or not. Some people on here have spoken of it being too close to and banging them in the back of the head.

The DIN-to-yoke adapter will, generally, bang you in the back of the head. I have several of them, and use them (my regs are DIN, and I sometimes rent yoke tanks).

I think I'm leaning toward DIN.

Good lean. I bought a DIN reg as my first reg. Never lloked back. Get a DIN reg, DIN tanks, and carry a DIN-to-yoke adapter for those rental times.

 

[Far_X]

Yes for sure get the steel tank. Diving a 7mm you will benefit from the extra negative bouyancy the tank brings. I have a DIN adapter on my deco reg and a yoke adapter on my Apeks 40. I have had no problem with the yoke adapter and I use the Apeks for single tank diving and vacations so I have used it a lot. Both my twinned steel HPs and LPs came with the DIN insert but they were quickly removed to accommodate for my DIN regulators though I don't think they would cause you any problem with your yoke adapter.

I agree with others in that the DIN insert allows you to gradually switch over to a complete DIN system rather than being forced to switch straight away.

If you had steel twins and diving with a wetsuit you may be justified in having some concern but a single steel tank should not give you cause for concern. You can ditch your free weight, if need be, and should be able to swim the rest up in an emergency.

 

[WD8CDH]

I would go with a "200 bar DIN" valve. They can be used with pressures up to 300 BAR (4350psi) and most are actually rated to 4500 psi.

The "300 bar DIN" can be used up to 450 bar (6525psi) but can't be adapted to a yoke with an insert.

Having your regulator converted to DIN (usually 300 bar DIN by the way but they fit 200 bar DIN valves equally well) and then using a DIN to yoke adaptor will lengthen your first stage. That may be a problem depending on your regulator, backpack etc.

Personally, I would get the tank with a 200 bar DIN valve, preferably modular to be able to either add an H valve or convert to a manifold.

I no longer have a preferance between aluminum and steel. To me it depends on the particular tank brand and size. I always look at a particular capacity and evaluate different tanks for bouancy, physical size/shape, weight, cost etc. Sometimes aluminum comes out ahead, sometimes steel.

By the way, I have personally used a Poseidon Cyclon 300 on a 200 bar DIN valve at 7000psi and I pressurized that same valve to 12,000psi with no leaks or failures.