First Stage Swivel

[tbone1004]

@BurhanMuntasser

1. most of my dive experience up there was in Maine, and sealing is required up there because of the air temperatures. It's rarely the water temp, it's the air temp that kills your first stages usually.

2. you keep making this reliability and cost of ownership claim, but I've yet to see any actual studies done on that, so care to cite your sources?

3. their performance and reliability may be great, but no better than my Poseidons... I'm a tech/cave diver, if you have survived the 3 year washout, you're going to be cheap and lazy when it comes to most equipment maintenance. That's when you realize that you buy equipment that doesn't have warranties predicated on service *cough scubapro/aqualung*, requires minimal maintenance between dives *cough pistons*, is cheap to maintain *cough sealed pistons*, doesn't require a lot of special tools *cough pistons*, easy access to parts *cough Aqualung/Scubapro*, and can go 3-5 years between services unless you flood or abuse them *basically all regulators*. Hence why most of the regs you see in cave country are sealed diaphragms from not Apeks, Atomic, and Scubapro. Combination of factors that has nothing to do with their performance/reliability, and everything to do with the variables mentioned above.

4. that was my point. The first hose cost doesn't matter, it's the second one that will murder you. That omni lasts forever, the hoses are good for 5 years... Save $80 every 5 years, or sooner if one gets damaged and/or you dive in chlorine

 

[BoltSnap]

1. most of my dive experience up there was in Maine, and sealing is required up there because of the air temperatures. It's rarely the water temp, it's the air temp that kills your first stages usually.

I dove in Maine right across from the Canadian border, no issues at all, none whatsoever. I dove with and unsealed piston regulators (SP) all year long even when it was snowing in Cape Ann, NH and ME, no issues. All of my friends who are there dive them no issues.

It has been pointed out to you in several other posts by other divers who use the SP unsealed piston regulators in various parts of the country that have severe winters including the great lakes without issues at any depths.

2. you keep making this reliability and cost of ownership claim, but I've yet to see any actual studies done on that, so care to cite your sources?

My opinion is based on working as a service technician for many brands since 1987 and owning a dive center selling several brands for over ten years and running a dive school with LOTS of equipment from several brands for over 30 years now. My/our sealed first stage Atomic regulators are least problematic regulators that can take longer intervals between servicing without any issues especially if they are sealed versions.

In regards to the hose integrated swivel, I wish that Atomic made the two parts separate but, on the other hand, changing the hose is only done so infrequently, it almost doesn't matter.

 

[tbone1004]

@BurhanMuntasser do you do your service intervals on time, number of dives, or whichever comes first?

Both Scubapro and Atomic have 24 month intervals, with SP at 100 dives and Atomic at 300. Poseidon is up to 24 months with recommendations on number of dives, but the warranty is done based on time not dives. Apeks is annually which is excessive.

Reason I was asking for some actual study vs. anecdotal evidence is that we have Apeks AT20/US4's that are used 3x/day, 4 days/week, 30 weeks/year and haven't been serviced in 5 years. They have had inhale/exhaust diaphragms, mouthpieces, and hoses replaced from the chlorine eating them, but we repair them on an interval basis of 5 years or if they ask for repair before then. We will have one or two that ask for them earlier which are instructors sets that get used a bit more often, but greater than 90% of them go the full 5 year intervals without actually needing to be serviced.
Similar dive time in hours, but not necessarily number of dives *which is a bs measurement imho*, is 5+ years of HOG and Dive Rite regulators going without service in cave country, same with my Poseidon's. All of it is anecdotal based on the regs that we have had and used over the years and I haven't seen any actual meaningful difference between any of the brands for long term reliability and wouldn't use that as a selling point when trying to make an informed decision on purchsae

 

[snowdog61]

try a 40 - 48" miflex lp hose with a swivel like this one - route it under the right arm. The Swivel isn't as skookum as the Omni but darn near and you're saving ~$60.

Zeagle has the Tech 50D which also has the turret but lacks a 5th port on the bottom.

 

[tbone1004]

try a 40 - 48" miflex lp hose with a swivel like this one - route it under the right arm. The Swivel isn't as skookum as the Omni but darn near and you're saving ~$60.

Zeagle has the Tech 50D which also has the turret but lacks a 5th port on the bottom.

not any more. The Zeagle 50D was made by Apeks during their weird relationship ~15 years ago, but is not part of the current lineup

 

[Charred]

When I bought regs for myself and my wife, I set myself up with a 40" primary with a 110 degree elbow (you run it under your right arm) and a 22" backup on a bungee. There are lots of discussions on this site about this arrangement. My wife used a standard "PADI" setup.

After a pool session to check them out, her jaw was sore and she was wicked (NE reference for you....) pissed. She has TMJ (its a jaw thing) from a car accident.

I let her try my setup and she loved it. I bought a 40 and 22 inch hose for her, a 110 elbow and made her a bungee necklace. By the end of vacation a few weeks later she was trying to convince random people to switch her hose setup.

It really is quite comfortable.

 

[tbone1004]

When I bought regs for myself and my wife, I set myself up with a 40" primary with a 110 degree elbow (you run it under your right arm) and a 22" backup on a bungee. There are lots of discussions on this site about this arrangement. My wife used a standard "PADI" setup.

After a pool session to check them out, her jaw was sore and she was wicked (NE reference for you....) pissed. She has TMJ (its a jaw thing) from a car accident.

I let her try my setup and she loved it. I bought a 40 and 22 inch hose for her, a 110 elbow and made her a bungee necklace. By the end of vacation a few weeks later she was trying to convince random people to switch her hose setup.

It really is quite comfortable.

as a fellow TMJ sufferer, I will say that the ball swivels, especially when on a 5' or 7' hose work much better because all of the weight is put on your neck and you can adjust the ball swivel perfectly

 

[The Chairman]

Don't buy a 'swivel'... buy an elbow.

THIS!!!

NOT THIS!!! ​

 

[SeaHorse81]

Don't buy a 'swivel'... buy an elbow.

I can only say that I use a swivel and can't tell you how many times I've been able to make myself comfortable by changing the hose angle by a few degrees this way or that way. Can't do that with an elbow.

 

[buddhasummer]

Don't buy a 'swivel'... buy an elbow.

View attachment 404275
THIS!!!

View attachment 404276
NOT THIS!!! ​

Why?