First service cost?

[axxel57]

A good tech should be able to do a reg in 1hr. If they take 3 hours they are fleecing you.[/B] The reg should come back with all the parts they've taken out, o-rings and HP seats. Plus a list of consumables i,e any hoses that needed replacing.]

Here a view on the tools and the testing equipment of a ‘good tech’.




He has survived the intellectual challenge of a three and a half hour Scubapro – Sherwood – Aqualung – Apeks – Oceanic or whatever Regulator Tech Clinic and is now proud owner of a Regulator Technician Certificate which hangs on the wall of his workshop.
He needs maximum 60 to 65 minutes for a complete service and testing of any given regulator type (1^st stage, 2^nd, octopus & SPG ).
His extensive experience, knowledge and expertise on regulators and regulator testing procedures makes it for him unnecessary to use test machines to control his own work others than the ones he is using anyway, his customers when they are underwater.

If he would become a ’really good tech’ he could finish a professional regulator service in 35 minutes or less, he is working on that......




This is part of the service and repair tools and test equipment of a 22 years in business amateur, who needs minimum 2 hours for a complete service and test of a regulator (SP MKII – R295 – R190), for most SP – Aqualung – Apeks – Oceanic – Sherwood – Mares regulators he needs more time.

Seems he is fleecing one victim after another.

He has so little trust in his own work, that he has invested thousands of US$ in test equipment which hopefully detects most of the blunder he is doing during the ‘service’ before his clients do.

He conducts additionally to the normal procedures a lot of other useless tests on the regulators like the inhalation cracking tests, flow tests, water integrity and checking the dynamic IP, and does a thoroughly documentation of the process, all that just to camouflage that he has no clue what he is doing.:cool2:

He tries to impress himself and his customers with his tools and test equipment to justify his horrendous prices ( Apeks Regulator Service 90,-US$, including parts) and to compensate his strong inferior complexes.

Nevertheless until now it seems he is getting away with it, understanding that he probably will never become a ‘good tech’.

Tel Aviv…….[SMV][/SMV]

 

[redacted]

Here a view on the tools and the testing equipment of a ‘good tech’.

View attachment 154523

Maybe the price was so high because the "good tech" decided to add a torque wrench to his tool kit.

 

[Ste Wart]

He has so little trust in his own work, that he has invested thousands of US$ in test equipment which hopefully detects most of the blunder he is doing during the ‘service’ before his clients do.

Maybe it's an English/Aussie Vs U.S divide. But reg servicing really isn't that hard. I'm just going by the guidelines laid down by my boss who trained me. He wanted an hour out of his staff, he could do a basic reg in less (e.g titan/calypso)

He conducts additionally to the normal procedures a lot of other useless tests on the regulators like the inhalation cracking tests, flow tests, water integrity and checking the dynamic IP, and does a thoroughly documentation of the process, all that just to camouflage that he has no clue what he is doing.:cool2:

Uh, those are normal tests.

He tries to impress himself and his customers with his tools and test equipment to justify his horrendous prices ( Apeks Regulator Service 90,-US$, including parts) and to compensate his strong inferior complexes.

The OP has said that the regs were out-sourced by the shop, which partly explained why the prices were so high.

 

[ams511]

Maybe it's an English/Aussie Vs U.S divide.

It has nothing to do with nationality or geographic distance but with mentality. In the US, you have many dive shops with a charity rather than a business mentality. They feel you should support your local dive shop regardless and they do not need to earn your business. They have many cheerleaders on SB. The OPs dive shop does not service regulators, so why not send them out to Scubatoys and get them serviced for half the price.

I have only rebuilt a few regulators but from what I have seen they are not all that difficult to service. My major problem is getting them apart, maybe that is do to a lack of experience or a lack of proper tools. I do not have the collection of adjustable wrenches shown in the photo.

 

[redacted]

I don't often disagree with The Master, but while tapping on a second stage may cycle the second stage, I do not feel it properly cycles the first stage because it remains pressurized. In my view, to properly cycle a first stage, the gas supply must be turned on, then off, purged, and re-pressurized (one cycle.) If the first stage is not depressurized, then the hard and soft seats are not being mated with enough force.

I made a DIY tool to cycle first stages. It has a pressure relieve valve with a pull ring and screws into a l/p port. This way, no second stage is needed so very little gas loss results with each cycle.

Having said all that, The Master's regulators all work just fine and he is alive and well.

(A smaller pressure relief valve could probably eliminate a few of the adapters)

The time it takes to rebuild a regulator in more related to the amount of cleaning it requires. If a regulator is badly corroded, it can be very difficult to disassemble and clean. Conversely, a regulator that is pristine and only requires parts changing and cycling can be done very quickly.

Well, you got me to thinking about the physics of what is going on here.

The pressure will be the same regardless of technique - IP. But pressure is not the only consideration or we could just leave the reg pressurized. It seems to me the difference in techniques produces different velocities of the piston. Recalling from some old days of weapons effects analysis, penetration (kinetic energy penetrators vs armor) tended to scale linearly with M*(V^(3/2)). So, increasing velocity will get more penetration in a single shot. But repeated shots also produced increased penetration. I guess it is like the difference of driving a nail with a hammer vs a nail gun. Both get the job done but the nail gun is faster. Remember also, that the nail gun may be subject to apply too much force. I know I open my tank valve slowly to avoid slamming the 1st stage valve closed which, I believe, is liable to damage some HP seats.

I think I will stick with my low velocity technique.

 

[Zung]

Kinda like low temperature cooking in modern cuisine...

From a more practical point of view, I find pulling repeatedly on the ring of the OPV tiring because it's hard; and since I'm cheap and I don't dive that often, at least not locally, I just leave the whole rig to sit on a tank for a week, and hope the various edges plow their merry way through the seats on static pressure alone. That sure saves on air fill.

BTW, kinetic energy is .5*M*V^2; how does that relate to your formula for KEP?

 

[redacted]

Kinda like low temperature cooking in modern cuisine...

From a more practical point of view, I find pulling repeatedly on the ring of the OPV tiring because it's hard; and since I'm cheap and I don't dive that often, at least not locally, I just leave the whole rig to sit on a tank for a week, and hope the various edges plow their merry way through the seats on static pressure alone. That sure saves on air fill.

BTW, kinetic energy is .5*M*V^2; how does that relate to your formula for KEP?

That penetration formula was empirically developed.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Keeping a reg clean inside has everything to do with how you rinse them and keep water out of the 1st stage.
Prevention to me is key.
On my piston regs I soak the setup hooked up to a tank and charged.
On diaphragm regs I rinse the reg and tank standing up in the driveway or out on the lawn, also with tank on, and I make sure to put the hose into the adjustment hole (where the diaphragm is) and get any salt out.
Also on my piston regs while they're still hooked up and after a soak I put the hose up to the ambient pressure holes and purge the inside area.
I never just put the dust cap on and throw a reg into water to soak. I used to do this a long time ago and the LDS reg techs (back before I was doing my own) used to tell me the reg was green inside. Normally when getting home from diving and the reg has been sitting in the sun and heats up then people put the dust cap on and throw the reg into a cold water tank the airspace inside the reg will retract in pressure and can draw water in through the weakest seal which would be the dust cap.
Another thing to really pay attention to is when your diving on a charter boat and the DM comes along to fill your tank, make sure you are really careful when you pull the reg off not to get any drops of sea water get into the 1st stage. I always have a small hand towel with me and make sure I blot all the water off the reg and valve area before removal, and I also hold the inlet downward so no missed drops run in.
Being religious about keeping water out makes reg servicing a dream.
When I tear down my regs they are always spotless inside and sometimes I wonder if they even need a service.

And yes, over $200 is a ripoff, sorry that happened to you.
That's why I got into doing my own. There would be no way I could have a shop do all of my regs, I would be too broke to dive.
But then I used to be a collision technician and a collision mechanic, so rebuilding and servicing regs to me is about like changing a tire or a set of brake pads.

 

[halocline]

I don't even worry about breaking in the 1st stage; I just leave it pressurized for an hour or so. If the piston edge is in good shape, those MK5/10 seats lock up perfectly right from the start. The 2nd stage I'll break in with a few dozen taps, but honestly I don't worry about that too much either. Worst case, which doesn't happen too often, I develop a slight free flow after a dive with the adjuster wide open, so I just pop off the hose and adjust the orifice in a fraction of a turn. I could do that on the boat if necessary. For the center balanced 2nds (D series, converted pilots) I have never once had one start to flow due to wear in a newly installed seat.

For unbalanced 2nds the break-in is more important, but I've converted most of my 109s to balanced.

 

[boarderX47]

I would have a tough time going to a dive shop that didn't give me a quote. At my lds they charge $46 an hour for labor and give you a parts estimate that they may increase by $25, after that they call you to confirm more cost. $220 seems somewhat high to me.

Sent from my Galaxy S III