first rig help

[Pumpkin King]

Hey everybody, this is my first post to ScubaBoard, so hello. My name is Josh, and I was certified PADI OW 4 years ago. Due to some unfortunate circumstances, however, I have only been able to make a few dives since then. My interest in diving has never waned, and now that it is possible, I will be diving once again. :07:

I've done a huge amount of reading here and on other tech message boards lately, trying to decide how I want to attack the 'first rig' problems... what to buy, what to get first, quality v. price... the usual :14:

I've decided on a hogarthian rig (good thing I'm posting here, eh?), but I want to make sure that I make good decisions that will allow the rig to adapt as I advance in my diving.

Truthfully, I am looking for that perfect rig which does everything well without breaking the bank. I also know that this does not exist, so I will put out what I am looking to do with it in the hopes that the vast knowledge of all the members of this board can help.

For Now:
-Single tank diving only
-Carribean to Mid-Atlantic, thus...
-Warm to cool water (not cold)
-Wet suits of varying thicknesses
-Salt and fresh water
-OW dives and AOW classes

Eventually:
-Singles and Doubles
-Any dive location
-Warm to Cold water
-Wet and dry diving
-Salt and fresh water
-Rec and Tech diving

From what I've read, this means that for right now I should be looking for an Al plate with a one-piece harness and a single tank wing with 30-45# of lift. Added to this, a 10W canister light, two backups, and a lift bag. As for a regulator setup, I am lost on what would be able to go from single tanks to doubles without owning my own tanks right away. Maybe this is one part where what I'm looking for does not exist.

As far as order of purchase, I am on a limited budget, so I came up with the following; feel free to make changes as needed. (I already have personal equipment)

-BP/W
-regs
-primary light
-secondaries
-lift bag

*tank
*doubles wing
*ss BP
*doubles/manifold

Thanks.
Josh
VMI 2005

 

[teknitroxdiver]

You are correct on the BP/W system. *phew, a smart one for once* IF you always use more than 5# of weight, you might look into a SS plate, which will let you take some of that weight off your belt. Also in your search for a wing, I suggest a double-bag wing, this has a protective outer shell, and IMO makes much more sense than just a bare bladder.

As for the regs, I suggest the Apeks ATX50 for everything. If you end up diving both singles and doubles, you'll probably end up with a third reg just for singles so you aren't changing hoses around all the time. What are your current thinkings about hose routings, just out of curiosity?

That looks like a good order of purchase, as you will most likely not find a BP/W to rent anywhere, but you can rent regs. You might just go ahead and get your primary and one backup light at the same time, that'll only add from $20-$80 to the cost, and that way you'll have a spare for night dives. Later when you do the tech stuff, you'll want that third light.

Do you already have your drysuit?

 

[DrDuktayp]

StagRaven:
I have taken my BP/W on two warm water vacations. My backplate is negative 6lbs as it is stainless. Adjusting the Hogartharian strap takes a bit when switching from a bulky dry suit and undergarment to a thin 3mm wetsuit. BUT the trim is nice with the plate. I only need about 6 pounds on my belt allowing me to be in a nice horizontal position during the dive.

teknitroxdiver suggested the Apex ATX-50 which is a fine rig. My wife has it and it is very nice. I have a Scubapro MK25/S600. Her reg breathes as good as mine or possibly better and it is less likely to have problems in VERY cold water. Her regulator was also less $ than mine!

I have a DiveRite backplate with the RecWings. My son has the Venture wing which has a circular cell like a tire instead of the horse shoe shape. If I were diving more with AL80's instead of the 108's I dive at home I would get a Venture wing or similar size and shape wing.

Keep us posted,
DrDuktayp

 

[scubafool]

For me, it worked out best getting the stainless plate to start with. In warmer waters, with a single tank, the extra weight in the plate instead of on a weightbelt has been much appreciated.

Once you make the transition to doubles, the (steel I am assuming) tanks have a lot more negative weight, so the less negative Al plate is a plus at that point. A personal example: With my Al 100 & SS plate, I need 3 lbs on my weightbelt to hold a shallow stop with a near empty tank. With my double HP 100 steels and an AL plate, I still need a tiny bit of air in my wing to get neutral shallow with near empty tanks. This is all in freshwater, mind you.

 

[GreenDiverDown]

I'd suggest starting with a SS BP. It won't be too heavy for a shorty and will be more appropriate for use with heavier suits. Eventually you might want/need an Al plate as well...but I suspect that you'll be happier with the SS for a first plate.

As far as a wing is concerned I would recommend something in the 27 to 35 # range. If your weight requirements are average then you won't need more than a 27. I would encourage you to get the smallest wing that you can get away with. Oval vs horseshoe...it doesn't matter...you'll get used to whatever you buy.

Regs...I'm an Apex TX50/DS4 fan. Solid regs...a good value. But there are a lot of different regs that are great. Whatever brand you decide to go with, I would suggest that you consider the port geometry and how this will affect your hose routing. Some regs are good for hogarthian routing and some are not. Some will route well for singles and doubles but some won't do this so well.

There are a lot of sources for this stuff...I'll give you some of my links...

FredT...BP, V/P weights, hardware...he's top notch and you won't find anything by anyone else any better...and... his prices are very reasonable. Email him at ftagge@goldinc.com and ask him to send you a price list. This guy is Mr. Custom.

http://www.deepseasupply.com/index.html Most interesting Hogarthian gear on the net. Tobin has lots of good ideas and very cool stuff. His plate and wing systems are unique...to say the least. Look in all the nooks and crannies...and don't miss his compass and gauge boots. This might be your one-stop place for any and everything.

http://www.extreme-exposure.com/ Reliable Halcyon dealer. Beware of all the H logos! I've been very happy with the ton of gear I've bought from these guys over the years. Expensive! Its good to see that there is now a lot of worthy competition. Their stuff used to be the best...but not so any longer.

http://www.oxycheq.com/ Very nice wings, plates, etc...another place that's got it all.

http://www.reefscuba.com/ Best place for the little things like webbing, bungee, hardware, etc.

http://www.carterbag.com/ Great lift bags and SMBs

http://salvodiving.com/ Probably your best bet for a killer HID...AND... Barry now seems to be offering a full line of Hog gear...check out those wings!

http://shop.the-scuba-shop.com/ Another source for Halcyon. Haven't tried these guys yet.

 

[Hoyden]

I noticed that you are in VA - if you have a chance to get up to northern VA Virginia Scuba rents backplate/wing set-ups as well as a variety of hog/tech gear and most of their staff dive these types of rigs as personal gear. Come up and rent some gear and head over to Millbrook (about 15 minuts from the shop) to try it out. As far as your equipment list goes, I am kind of on the same road - leave the lift bag and primary light until last as you will use them less than the other things on your list - Don't worry about a canister light unless/until you start doing lots of night dives or are ready to start cavern/cave (not much chance of that locally) and consider adding a reel if you are going to be doing dives of the DE/MD coast. The other thing that quickly got added to my list (one quarry dive in January) so I could dive year round without flying south was a dry suit - if you shop carefully and patiently you can pick up a servicable used one if money is a big constraint. Frightenly, I have gotten everything on your list (except a primary light) in the last 14 months - pm me if you want a cost estimate.

Jackie Cooper

 

[Pumpkin King]

Thanks for all the help guys!

As of right now, I'm looking at the Hammerhead ss plate with an Oxycheq 30# wing and harness parts from reefscuba to make my own.

As for routing, I want my hog to be DIR compliant if possible. With rental singles, though, I don't understand how I can. Would I have to find an LDS that rents din H or Y-valves instead of the usual yoke K-valve, or have I completely missed the boat on this one?

For purchasing regs, I'm thinking a din DS4 with an ATX50 primary and a TX40 backup. This would then be split once I started diving doubles onto a second DS4. (opposite handed with isolation valve, of course) This assumes I don't just set up a singles set and a doubles set at that point for ease of use.

Finally, two people have hit on the expense of a primary canister and suggested that it be a later purchase. (I agree) What are some suggestions on what to use in the meantime? Would a 'backup' be enough light for the OW/AOW conditions I will be exposed to in the near future?

Thanks again.
Josh
VMI 2005

 

[GreenDiverDown]

As of right now, I'm looking at the Hammerhead ss plate with an Oxycheq 30# wing and harness parts from reefscuba to make my own.

Cool!

As for routing, I want my hog to be DIR compliant if possible. With rental singles, though, I don't understand how I can. Would I have to find an LDS that rents din H or Y-valves instead of the usual yoke K-valve, or have I completely missed the boat on this one?

You don't need an H or Y valve. (You don't need an H or Y valve to be DIR either.)
Here are two regs...one yolk and one DIN. Both are set up Hog/DIR.

For purchasing regs, I'm thinking a din DS4 with an ATX50 primary and a TX40 backup. This would then be split once I started diving doubles onto a second DS4. (opposite handed with isolation valve, of course) This assumes I don't just set up a singles set and a doubles set at that point for ease of use.

You bet. By the time you have doubles set up, you will want a separate reg for singles...too much work and too much wear and tear switching back and forth.

Finally, two people have hit on the expense of a primary canister and suggested that it be a later purchase. (I agree) What are some suggestions on what to use in the meantime? Would a 'backup' be enough light for the OW/AOW conditions I will be exposed to in the near future?

Ah...but canister lights are sooo sweet! Until you get one (don't keep putting it off...they are really that good) you might like a simple UK SL4. These are inexpensive...and...they can be mounted on your harness Hog/DIR style. They will give you plenty of light for night diving and will let you check out some things during the day.

Oh...BTW...don't let the 40 inch primary throw ya...its just another way to rig an OW Hog/DIR reg setup. (I prefer a 7 footer for just about everything but sometimes use this reg set up with the shorter primary)